811 - No Title Yet - Larryg Hagner
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[00:00:00] Hey, hey, what's up, my man? It's the Tia Sam here. Welcome to unleash the man within. Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you're having a fantastic day. If you're not, not to worry. I got you covered. Uh, you're about to listen to my interview with Larry Hagener. He's been on the show before he talked about, uh, one of my favorite subjects really in the world.
Psychological safety. And this guy is so unbelievably tactical in the softer areas of life, like empathy. I don't know how he does it. He's just, he's fantastic. I brought him back today and we talked about a completely different subject. Larry is the founder of the dad edge. So naturally he's got a lot of wisdom about.
Being a dad. And so I thought, you know, Hey, I just became a dad. That's so cool. Why don't we get them on here and let's talk about fatherhood. And I didn't even know this. I, I, this is almost embarrassing, but I, I will mention to you guys. Anyways, he's out to launch a book about fatherhood. I didn't even know that.
I just wanted him back on. And I was like, Hey, you know, should we promote something? And he was like, well, you know, I guess I got this book about fatherhood coming out. [00:01:00] So I'm like, dude, obviously we're going to, we're going to promote that. What are you talking about? Um, so anyways, the stars just kind of aligned.
It was a really cool interview. Um, and again, you know, I think you could, you could go listen to him just about anywhere, talk about his book and what his book's about. Uh, I wanted to do something different on the podcast today. And so we talked a lot about like the stories leading up to the book and, um, Larry's been on this really cool faith journey, really like committing his life to Jesus and really living a surrendered life just in the last three or four years.
And so we talked about that journey and how it's kind of flavored his, uh, approach to his business. How it's impacted the way he's leading at home and how it actually led to the writing of this book. It's kind of a wild story. Uh, and so it's a lot of fun. And I think you're going to hear a lot of things today that you wouldn't hear Larry talk about in most other places.
So it was a great interview. He's a fantastic dude. And I know, I just know with all my heart, you're going to love this interview. Let's not waste another minute. Here is me sitting down, having a great chat with Larry Hager. [00:02:00] All right, Larry, I'm always excited when I get to chat with you, man. Welcome back to the show.
Larry Hagner: What's up, man? And hey, congratulations. You're, you're a dad. You are in it, man. Six months in
Sathiya Sam: I'm in the club. I'm in the club. It's funny. There is like a club, right? Cause you like, we walk down the streets now with, you know, you have a stroller and whatever, and you see other parents with their strollers and there's just, I don't know. We just make eye contact differently. There's like an acknowledgement.
Like I gets it.
Larry Hagner: Oh, man. Uh, real quick before we get started. I, [00:03:00] so I always make like my youngest now is eight, you know, so I have 18 to eight now, which is kind of crazy. 18, 16, 10 and eight. And so now like, um, I have a good friend of mine who owns a diaper bag company called high speed daddy. He's former military. So he makes these tactical, like almost like rucksack camo bags.
And like, literally like this thing has more compartments in it than like a transformer. And, um, it's got even like your Velcro on there for your ruck patches and everything. And it's, but it's, it's. a diaper bag, but you can also use it as like a rucksack or a tactical bag or that kind of thing. So every time I see dudes walking around with like the hot pink, like mama's bag or whatever on their back, I'm always like, dude, I should just go up and be like, Hey man, high speed, daddy, you can thank me later.
Like, but so
Sathiya Sam: That's
Larry Hagner: the new dads out there, there are options for you. And by the way, I don't, I don't have a financial interest in that. I'm just saying like, it's an observation I make with With guys with little dudes now are little little girls. I'm [00:04:00] like, Oh man, there's a much cooler bag out there.
You don't have to wear that pink one anymore.
Sathiya Sam: That's amazing. Like virtue signaling, right? Just from
the bag you wear as a father. I love it. Yeah, that's cool, man. Uh, well, I, I mean, I've been following your stuff. I actually wouldn't mind asking you about this because you have a cool project that we're going to get into. But, um, you, I was following you online and I, it's funny.
I, I'm not really online a lot contrary to, uh, my social presence. I really am not on there a lot, but. There were a couple of weeks where I was following you and you, um, you went just like incredible fitness transformation, um, that wasn't like overnight, but you were, you were doing your work, dude, you were like shredded an incredible shape.
And then you had this knee injury, like a pretty major setback. And I would just want to ask psychologically what that was like for you. Um, cause you posted a little bit about how difficult it was to like. Not be able to work out. The gym was like kind of your haven. You were just hit like the peak of your, uh, fitness goals and endeavors.
Uh, how'd you navigate that, man? That's, that's, that's hard on a dude's life. I, I, I know. So talk to me [00:05:00] about it. Hmm.
Larry Hagner: Horrifically terrible. I am not even kidding, man. Like I was the biggest. F baby, like just baby, like, and the way I describe it as this. So like that was, that was a season in my life. And, and I, and I wrote this book that I know we're going to talk about in that season.
And, and I, and I literally hurt my knee four days after I inked the contract to write that book.
Sathiya Sam: No
Larry Hagner: And yeah, yeah. And I, I honestly believe there was more powers that be, but like, I really, really met myself during that whole process. And I realized that. I thought I was a fitness enthusiast and what I really came to realize that if you take fitness away from me, I become a shell of a human being because probably way too much of my identity was wrapped up in that, to be quite honest, and that experience where you suddenly cannot [00:06:00] do about 90 percent of what you used to be able to do, and you have chronic, which I had chronic pain as well, I have a whole new respect for people with chronic pain, But like, literally like it, the whole process absolutely terrified me.
And I. And I mean, I, I went the other direction. So for like two straight years, I was in the best shape I had ever sustained in my entire life. Cause me and my, uh, second born son did a bodybuilding show back and, uh, actually it was kind of funny. It was two years ago today as you and I are
Sathiya Sam: No way.
Larry Hagner: Yeah.
Yeah. And, uh, and I was like, I was like, you know what, I think I can sustain this level of fitness, you know, like single digit body fat, like, you know, 175 pounds, like 8 percent body fat, like I felt good. And, you know, like I took a lot of pride in that man, like knowing that I could. You know, sustain that level of fitness at my age.
And then I got hurt and then it went the other direction. I didn't go too crazy in the other direction, but you know, I, I gained about 15 pounds back, I ate, I ate my depression, like literally ate it, drank it [00:07:00] too, like I drank alcohol again. And like, I did not do well with that. And I literally, I, I told my wife and I was like, I think like I literally like depend on fitness as my therapy way too much.
I need, I need other things in my life that are therapeutic and whole. Right. And so I had to go out and find those things, but I'm, I'm better now. I'm better now
Sathiya Sam: Yeah. I mean, I would not expect any less from you as far as self awareness goes, cause you're just like, you're so astutely in tune. So it's, that's cool. It's cool that you identified that, but I, I can resonate with that as well. Like the gym can be such an amazing place to. process, de stress, take care of yourself, all that stuff, and simultaneously it can be Really dangerous, you know, and it can become a really toxic kind of habit.
So, uh, super interesting. I feel like, um, the other thing that you mentioned is really interesting. I tore my ACL playing basketball, uh, right before I got married. And if you look at my wedding [00:08:00] photos, you can see one of my legs is like, it's bent just a little bit. Cause I couldn't fully straighten it. And, um, I wound up getting the operation done a little bit after we got married.
And I had about four weeks where I was off work. Um, and I, I had just started deep clean. I was just working with guys. We were running some group coaching, but I hadn't really like. Anyway, um, in that season, I still remember like I was at this coffee shop almost every day, just working on our program, building the course and taking all the stuff that we had been finding in the calls and kind of putting it into material.
And, um, that most of that content we still use today with our clients. So, uh, it's cool how God uses those seasons. Tell me a little bit about the book. So, cause you said this season inspired the book or got forced you to kind of sit down and write it. But, uh, just from hearing the title alone, I have to imagine this is the culmination of probably years.
I mean, this is maybe decades in the making for you to write a book like this. Talk, talk to me a little bit about the concept.
Larry Hagner: Uh, I wish I could [00:09:00] say it was decades in the making. I mean, I guess, you know, I think our God, the plan that God has for us, it's already been laid out for our entire life. But like, for me, it wasn't even really on my radar until like 2020.
Sathiya Sam: Hmm.
Larry Hagner: Um, so I, I was, I was raised in the Catholic faith ever since I was a little kid.
So faith has always been a part of my life, but I wouldn't say it was, it wasn't a part of my identity. And it wasn't even a part of like what I would say I practiced. I was sort of like a box checker when it came to my faith. Um, I still, even though I wrote this book, I still have areas that I could improve upon.
But as far as like this process, it was really fascinating. Like, and I think almost the story of getting the book deal and actually writing the book is almost like as intriguing as the book itself, because I wrote a book back in 2000, I finished a book back in 2022. I decided this was my, this was my third book.
I was like, I'm going to go through a publisher. So I went through a publisher, publisher, and I [00:10:00] signed a contract. Um, the launch date was supposed to go, was supposed to be like September of 2022. Well, we worked, we marketed, we went through the editing process. It was like, I think nine months of work. Right.
And then, um, six weeks before my launch date, I get this email from the publishing agency saying like, Hey, we're going bankrupt. And I'm like, What? And this was a different book altogether. This was pursuit of legendary fatherhood, which is very different than the book that I that's coming out now, which is spirit of fatherhood.
So I wrote this book and the CEO, he was, he was not only, um, uh, you know, we had a business relationship. He was also a friend as well. And, and he's like, Hey man, like, look, we had, we ran into some really bad things. Like I can do one of two things. I can either help yourself publish pursuit of legendary fatherhood, or just sign the book rights back over to you and you go take it to another publisher.
I was like, I'll take that. So I hired an agent and the agent had been in the literary space for 25 years. She used to work for Harper Collins. I sent her the book. She's like, I love the book. I'll [00:11:00] wrap the book. And I was like, wow, really? And my, uh, the person who connected me to her was like, if this woman says yes to your book, you've got a winner.
If she doesn't just, just self publish it. So she was like, yeah, I'll wrap it. So we went to a couple of agencies and Morehouse called a meeting with us and was like, Hey, we love the book. And this was in July of last year. They're like, we love the book. And, but we don't want to publish this one just yet.
And I'm like, why are we on this call then? And they're like, we actually want you to publish another book. We want you to write a new book. And I'm like, I was like, are you serious? And they're like, yeah, we want you to, we've been watching you actually for a while, and we know that you're, you've been pretty entrenched with your faith for like the past three or four years.
And we also know your, your relationship with God is, is somewhat new, but it's also strong, We want you to write another book. We already have the title picked out. It's going to be the spirit of fatherhood. And we would love for you to write this book. And I'm like, they're like, we just [00:12:00] partnered with a female author who wrote a similar book for moms and it's going gangbusters and I was like, okay.
I was like, I was like, I was like, I, I laughed at first and I was like, I'm honored and I appreciate that, but I am not qualified to write a book like that. And, uh, they're like, no, no, no. We. We think that you are because we think that you could actually write it from a place. Where the person feels that you're still learning and they're learning along with you.
I was like, Oh, I can do that. Like that I can do. So like, they don't, they're like, we don't want this preaching from a pulpit book. We actually want a book where the reader feels like they're in lockstep with you. And I was like, I can totally do
Sathiya Sam: That's so cool Yeah,
Larry Hagner: like father's day next year. So this was July of 2023. I was like, awesome. I was like, so I have like what to like March to write this book. And they're like, they're like, No, we actually need it by November 1st. And I'm like, and I'm looking at my calendar. I was like, that's like 12 weeks away.
And they're [00:13:00] like, yeah, we know the timeline's really, really tight. And I'm like that. It took me a year to write Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. And they're like, yeah, we know, but we still want you to do it. And I'm like, so of course I was like, I need a minute to think about that. So I pray, I prayed on it.
And the thing that came back was just say, yes, just say yes to it. And so I literally inked the contract, this book. I think my fingers were shaking. I'm like, I can't even believe I'm committing to this. Like, and dude, I literally sat in front of my computer. They wanted me to come up with the table of contents.
And I sat in front of my computer after writing that, writing that contract. And I was just like blank screen. And I'm like, I literally almost sent them an email saying white flag. I give up. I'm not doing this book. Like, I'm just not, it's not in
Sathiya Sam: yeah
Larry Hagner: but I didn't. And it was four days later, all hell broke loose in my life.
So I got injured. Um, seems like minor on the, on the surface, but my, my knee was bleeding and hemorrhaging internally for actually eight weeks before I [00:14:00] knew it was actually bleeding internally. I just, I thought it was swollen the whole time. Um, but it wasn't, it was
Sathiya Sam: was a blood
Larry Hagner: It was
Sathiya Sam: That's wild.
Larry Hagner: are while this also this other story sounds a little weird, but I believe in spiritual warfare.
Um, on the same day I, I had taken before I got injured, I took my dog for a walk. He was only four years old. He was like the dog, family dog. Like the boys loved him. He was just greatest dog ever. Four years old was walking a little slow. My wife took him to the vet the next day. They're like, we don't know how to tell you this, but.
Your dog has two weeks to live and we're like, what, like he's four years old. They're like, he has end stage lymphoma. He's got maybe two weeks to
live. And we're
Sathiya Sam: that dog. You did the client call with us and he was chillin with you. I
Larry Hagner: he always would chill on me with, chill with me on this, on this couch behind
Sathiya Sam: Yeah, yeah.
Larry Hagner: So six days later, he dies. just boom. Um, then my 16 year old sustains a massive head [00:15:00] injury during a football game. And he's the starting center for his team that rattles us. Then my 10 year old is diagnosed with a rare eye condition.
And all the while I'm like, and, and within that edge, I had a COO, a guy who worked for me. And that Just went into a horrible like direction with him and he ended up resigning, which thank God he digs. I w I was going to let him go, but I'm like, what is happening? Like suddenly like all these
Sathiya Sam: contract?
Larry Hagner: Yeah.
So, uh, but, but here's what I'll tell you, you know, um, that experience, and there was more things that happened because you're dealing with everyday life on top of
Sathiya Sam: yeah.
Larry Hagner: and more challenges just kept coming. And. But that put me in like the rawest, like mindset and like everything that I thought I valued.
Right. Just suddenly in a moment was like stripped away and I'm like, so it basically put me in like [00:16:00] this different persona, like this raw, like vulnerable. Um, I would call myself a high target at that point in my life because I felt like there was a spiritual target on my back and here's the other thing.
It's kind of crazy too. When I actually would sit down and write, I, it was, this is now my fifth book. And it was the, the writing experience was way different. It was almost like I was not writing it. If that makes any sense, I would pray before I'd write. And like, I would get just, I've never hit a flow state like this to where I could write like that.
Larry Hagner: And I knocked out the book nine days before the deadline. And my publisher, my editor was like, I've never seen anybody hammer out a book this quick in my life. Like this was insane. And I told him, I was like, it came from a really raw, raw place, man. And so, yeah. Um, process was, there was a lot more detail involved there, but, um, but I did get it done and now it's [00:17:00] releasing on, um, on father's day this year.
Sathiya Sam: Anyone who's tried to write a book will really appreciate that timeline that you just gave from when you started writing to when you finished, because that's really hard to do. And I know, I know a couple authors who have been on the show who are like prolific. And after we finished recording, and I, you know, I'd like to have a little conversation.
How can I support you? What else is going on? They're like, like a couple of guys have been like, can you write my book for me? Cause I'm like, I'm like, I'm drawing blanks, you know, like I have a deadline to me and like I'm staring at the blank screen and nothing's coming. So that's phenomenal, man. I want to ask you, um, we will get to the book, I swear.
But you mentioned the last three, four years, um, being on a more kind of, I guess, enriching spiritual journey. What, what has that meant to you and what, how did this all come about?
Larry Hagner: Well, the way it came about was. It was not cool at the time. Like I did not enjoy the process. So we'll go back to 2019 real quick. So in 2019, I didn't really have that [00:18:00] deep of a relationship with, with, with Christ or God, I I'd go to church, but it was more like, okay, we're going to church as a family because that's what we're supposed to do.
And at the time, like I was being very bold and blunt and in your face, almost like this, uh, Andy for sell a feel where I would just drop F bombs on social media and in my podcast. And I was kind of like, I would just like rattle. I'd want to rattle people, you know? And, um, I had a very good friend of mine who I, from a professional relationship by 10 years ahead of me, who is kind of a mentor in my life.
And he asked me for coffee one day. And you know how you just kind of feel like there's a tough conversation coming and you're like, okay. So anyway, this guy's name was Brian. We sat down for coffee and I could tell we talked for like 45 minutes. I could tell something was not right. And I go, Brian, I go, why are we here?
What do you need to talk to me about? And he's like, he's like, listen, Larry, this is really, really hard for me. He goes, you know, I'm a huge fan of your show. Um, I, you [00:19:00] know, I, I know you consider me a mentor. I also consider you a mentor. Um, but I need to call you forward on something and I'm like, okay. And he goes, Larry, what's your relationship with, with Jesus Christ?
What's your relationship with God? And I'm like, I just looked at him and I'm like, Brian, what, why are you asking me this? He's like, I'm seeing things online. Like you're dropping F bombs. You're being very bold. Like you're being almost enraging, you know, like you're trying to trigger people. And you're using really foul language and you're using foul language in your podcast.
He's like, is that who you are? And I just looked at him almost like I was a kid in trouble. I'm like, what are you getting at Brian? And he goes, well, is that who you are? Like, what, what, what's your relationship with, like, you have a huge platform here and you could use it, you know, to inform more people about the word, but you're not.
He's like, what do you want? What do you think of if your boys are listening to your podcast and they hear their dad talking like that? And my ego [00:20:00] just like stepped in. I'm like, I don't know, Brian. I was like, they'll probably understand. And I, the thing was, is the whole time he was talking to me, I knew he was right.
And he's like, look, I'm just saying, he's like, I have three daughters. And if you're the guy behind that microphone, and if one of your sons called my daughter, the first thing I'd be thinking about is I don't want that kid talking to my daughter because of the way his dad talks online. And I'm like, wow, that one hit me in the heart.
And I'm like, I haven't really thought of that. And so he's like, look, he goes, I'll just leave you at this. I don't think you have a close relationship with Christ. And if you're open to it, I'd like to help you with that. And I'm like, All right. And I was just, I was pissed. I was, I was enraged and I went out to my car and I would just like, wanted to punch through my windshield.
I was like, what, who's this guy? I think he is like, you know, that was my ego talking. But then 48 hours later, you know, that thing, that conversation really started to simmer and I started asking myself that question, those questions of like, is that who you are? And the answer that kept [00:21:00] coming back was.
It's not, and it actually, it never has been. So why are you doing it? So I called Brian back and I'm like, Hey, first of all, thank you. That took a lot of courage for you to tell me that. And what do you have in mind to help me with this? He's like, well, he goes, apology accepted. And he said, I am a part of a community called legacy builders and legacy builders has a program called operation Timothy.
He's like Operation Timothy is a two year mentorship, where a Timothy, which would be you, is mentored by a Paul, who is me, because I've been through Operation Timothy, and you don't pay a dime, neither do I. The only thing that we pay is, is our time. He's like, and if you want, we would meet every other Wednesday for 90 minutes.
And I'm going to take you through these modules and a Bible study. That's going to help you understand the Bible. Like you've never understood it before. And to help you create a relationship with Christ that you don't feel overwhelmed by. And I'm like, I can get [00:22:00] behind that. Okay. So I did it. And I'll tell you, I couldn't get enough of it because for once in my life, the Bible, scripture, and here's the other thing too, I never felt that I was worthy of God's love.
But I also know that that's also a lie of the enemy. I would tell myself all the time of like, I'm a sinner. I've always been a sinner. I'm going to be sending more like, what do I do? Just keep apologizing for it. Like, and plus I don't understand the Bible. Like the thing's way too big. It's way too outdated.
Like, I don't understand it. Like, why would I understand it? Like, why even try? Like that was my, but I did give it. I gave that, that two years, everything I had and I couldn't get enough of it The every other weekend man every other week I got these new aha moments and I became excited about it And I was like, dude, this is awesome And then I just after I graduated the program because you have to graduate um, I became a part of that organization and Um, I am taking my oldest son through it now, which is really cool.
Yeah.
Sathiya Sam: dude, that's amazing. [00:23:00] It's um, I mean, it's another conversation for another day, but the value of discipleship is like so important, like for Brian to just have that conversation with you, have a solution. Um, that's life changing, man. And that's obviously what you do with the dad alliance and everything with the dad edge.
Like it's cool. It's really cool. And good on you for having that humility. I think that's amazing. Um, How did that dovetail into your book? So I, this is a cool concept cause you have been on this discipleship journey. Um, and your book's titled the spirit of fatherhood. So give us the, what's the layout here?
What are, what were you hoping to accomplish with what you put together?
Larry Hagner: Yeah so the the spirit of fatherhood is Written for dads by a dad You And a fellow dad who was very overwhelmed with the responsibility of like, no matter what, no matter how you want to like, how you want to slice it, we are the spiritual leaders [00:24:00] in our as men. Now, You can go about that several different ways.
You know, some guys are like, well, I'm just a spiritual person. Some guys I'm a Christian, some guys I'm faith based. It just, whatever it is. Like when your kids, here's what, here's what's interesting. My kids got to the age where they started asking me questions about the Bible and about God and prayer.
And what I found was, is I kept asking, like, I was just like, I don't know. And then they would look at me and they're like, Well, why do we do these things then? I'm like, I don't know. We're, that's what we're supposed to do. And they would be like, but why? And I'm like, I don't know, because that's what I was told.
Like, and it just wasn't clear. So it was really revealed to me of like, I need to have better answers than that. Because that's not explaining or teaching them anything. So how has the book written? The book is written for. Any man in any situation. And literally the first chapter starts with like, what a guy is feeling as his wife is in the delivery room, like all these things of like, [00:25:00] Oh my gosh, this is about ready to get really, really real.
Like, what am I in for here? You know? And you know what that's like is six months ago for you.
Sathiya Sam: It's
Larry Hagner: So that's like the, the very first chapter is like all those fears of like, uh, fear of, you know, I have financially providing fear of emotionally taking care of another human being, the fear of physical affection, the fear of not being worthy or the fear of failing at this whole thing.
Like all these things that we tell ourselves before fatherhood even happens, like, Oh my gosh, like. Am I really ready for this? Right? And the answer to that question is yes, we are. We can answer the call as long as we're well prepped. So it takes a man through all those things that we're telling ourselves, even, even in the early years, but there are chapters and parts that the book is broken up into four different parts and several different chapters.
The book is very digestible. Every chapter is very short and it's meant to be a book that you can take off of your Open up the table of contents to be like, yep, that's what I need right [00:26:00] now. So there's, there's things in there about marriage, right? Communication, connection, intimacy. Um, also connection with your kids, creating environments of psychological safety, raising young men, raising daughters.
Um, there's yes, there's, there's a. There's a foundational faith based component to it, but there's also a lot of, you know, earthly tactical things that we also teach within Dat Edge, right? And teach within anything that we do that will help you elevate these relationships along with that faith foundation.
So it's not just like, Hey, here's everything faith and in your face on this topic. It's more like, yes, faith is at the helm. And we can also do these other things. That allow us to have these incredible connections with our kids and our wives and for us to feel more confident as fathers.
Sathiya Sam: I love it, man. I think the premise is amazing. And I've heard your content on marriage and creating psychological safety. We had to talk about that your first interview with [00:27:00] us. It's all really, really good stuff. Is there something in the book, um, that you wrote that maybe you felt challenged by, like, Oh, I don't know if I'm the guy to talk about this, but I also feel like it needs to be said or anything where it's like, this is still pretty fresh.
You know, I don't know that I'm the authority and I have this perfectly figured out, but, um, you know, it maybe fit the mold or that kind of thing. Anything along those lines that's in there.
Larry Hagner: Yeah. So, um, especially like the, when I had to write specifically about girls,
Sathiya Sam: Hmm.
Larry Hagner: cause I don't have girls, right. So that one was a huge challenge for me. So I really had to, um, I really had to go back to a lot of experts who have come on the podcast, like Meg Meeker, you know, strong father, strong daughters, and, and really talk about that topic of what it's like to raise a confident young woman, right?
Or a daughter, everything from teenage years to, cause I don't have that direct experience. Uh, that, that one was a tough one. The other thing too, [00:28:00] um, the, the most, the most challenging chapter for me that actually didn't even get into the book. It actually was removed from the editor. Um, and for good reason, not that it was bad, but I was also, I had a, a very solid spiritual mentor that was just sort of helping me along the way with my mental state, my faith and my heart.
Cause he knew like, you know, I was, I was going through a lot of pain when I was doing, when I was writing this
book.
So I wrote an entire chapter one day at Starbucks, six hours I was there and I just like hammered out 10, 000 words in a chapter all about spiritual warfare, how to recognize it, what I was going through with it, um, you know, how we overcome these things, the lies of the enemy, how to recognize those, the whole nine yards.
And I wrote that chapter and my editor was like. This is great, but you do realize all your other chapters are like four pages and this is going to be like 50 like you, we can't put this in there. It's just, [00:29:00] yeah, it's way too big. So I told my friend that and he just smiled. I'm like, and I was like, dude, I was like, I can't believe it's like they, they won't let me put it in here.
It's too long. And, and blah, blah, blah. And he just looked at me and he goes, yeah, Yeah, he goes, um, do you think writing that chapter was really meant for the book? Or do you think that that was meant for you? Dunder? And I was like, very good point. I was like, I was like, that was six hours in Starbucks and 10, 000 words.
And he's like, Yeah, and what did you learn? And I told him he's like, so it sounds like it was worth it. And I was like, yeah, that was that's pretty good. But that's what a good man in your life will do. You know, he'll point out those things that we just don't
Sathiya Sam: Yeah. So what did you learn, writing it? Yeah.
Larry Hagner: So I learned, um, that the tallest tree in the forest is the one that gets hit by lightning. And when you are doing something that's going to move the kingdom forward, you're going to get hit.
Sathiya Sam: Hmm.
Larry Hagner: There's [00:30:00] going to be suffering. There's going to be things that are going to absolutely challenge you.
Uh, you know, cause what I found out through that process is the enemy isn't so concerned with the people, you know, in, in the spectator stands. Right. The ones who are just watching the game, they're not, he's not even really so much concerned with the players on the bench, but he will attack the ones who are, who are absolutely in the game.
Right. And make it making plays. That's, that's the people he targets, but it's, um, a lot of the things too, that we think that. So a great lesson for me was to overcome self pity with better questions. So like when I was going through this process, I was like, why is this happening? Why, why is my son like, why did he have almost a career football career ending injury?
Why did our dog die? Why is my knee hemorrhaging internally? Why do the doctors don't know? Why are they telling me that it could be a blood disorder? I could have bone [00:31:00] cancer. Like, I'm in chronic pain. I'm on crutches. Like, I was even doing research on the internet and it was telling me that people who couldn't get the hemorrhaging in a knee to stop had their leg amputated from the knee down.
So I'm sitting here thinking I'm going to lose my leg and I'm sitting here like, why is this happening? I'm trying to do this good thing right now. Like what the heck is going on? And, but it allowed me to step back and be like, all right, so what are you trying to teach me here? Like that, that's what I kept asking.
And the answers that came back to me were number one. You wouldn't be able to move the kingdom forward. You wouldn't be able to write this book unless I put you in the most humbling place for you to write it.
Sathiya Sam: Hmm.
Larry Hagner: Like, so that answer came back and I was like, wow, that's, that's fascinating. Right. But here's the other, here's the other thing too.
And I don't, I don't know if there's truth to this. I'm really not like a woo woo person, but there's, I feel like there are sometimes, you know, the enemy, if you, if you listen close [00:32:00] enough, he'll talk. Not, not that you'll hear a voice, but you'll feel something. And I remember it was a really bad night one night.
Like I was reading online. Like I could lose my leg if this wasn't figured out. And other people had had the same condition, lost their leg. And I literally I'm in my office that, that night that I was researching that I'll never forget. I'm like hunched over and I just felt just like this. Sinister feeling.
It's about the best way I can describe it. Like nothing like was nudging me physically or anything like that, but just something sinister was a play. And the feeling that I got, I didn't actually hear a voice, but the feeling that I got was let this book go and all this pain goes away
Sathiya Sam: Hmm.
Larry Hagner: and it just, and I was like, huh, and I took a stand on that.
And I said, even if writing this book costs me everything, just going to have to cost me everything. And I stayed obedient.
Larry Hagner: And I've, I've found that if you do that, if you stay [00:33:00] obedient, the, the season of winter will change to spring again. Right. And the most important thing, and I'll wrap up this final thought is, I never felt that I was alone through it
Sathiya Sam: Hmm. Yeah.
Larry Hagner: that there was, There was a tremendous positive nudge to just just keep going. I'm with you. I'm not going to leave you Just just keep going like and and I felt that
Sathiya Sam: Man, it reminds me of Jesus in the wilderness after he's fasted 40 days and the enemy attempts to turn the stones into bread, right? Same thing. Like you could put your hunger to end. Just. Just do it. Just command the stones to become bread. It'll all be done. Yeah
Larry Hagner: Yeah
Sathiya Sam: What is there something that you would say to fathers like myself, you know, I just became a new father I have to imagine When you started fatherhood 18 years ago things looked a little different than they do today, you know, and in some ways like everything's the same like there's like, you know, we've seen it all and it's just that [00:34:00] the Circumstances change.
Now the conversation is a lot more around technology and that kind of thing. But I'm, I'm wondering if there's anything that you're saying, man, maybe as a father, when I started out, I didn't need to know this or have this figured out. But definitely if you're a father today, um, here's some things that I would be imparting or advising you to really look out for this or be attentive to this.
Anything in particular come to
Larry Hagner: your question is so timely. Cause I literally just put a video on my Instagram talking about, Hey, here are five, everybody's like these lists, right? The five things, the three things, the 10 things, whatever. But I was like, you know, as someone asked me that, like a client asked me, they're like, Hey, if you could have a conversation with yourself and you were to give yourself five pieces of advice, you know, before being a dad, what would you tell yourself?
And that really sparked like some. Really cool things about that, about that video. So like, number one, I would have gotten much more in depth with my faith way earlier on in the process, [00:35:00] because that has given that relationship that I've gotten with God has given me tremendous peace. It's given me confidence.
It's definitely given me some humility. And it's also taught me that I am a beloved son of God, and I am worthy of a relationship with him. And knowing that, I think you can, you can approach your own fatherhood journey towards your kids of there's nothing that you could ever do that would make me love you any less.
There's nothing you could ever do that would make, make something unforgivable. Like I started really thinking about that particular point of like, would I ever want my kids to come to me and say, I'm just not worthy of your love dad. I've done too many things wrong. I'd be like, are you Are you kidding me?
Like, is it, that's not even, that can't be real, right? And what I've, what I've learned through my relationship with God is that he feels the same way about us, but on a whole different level that we can't even understand. So, so that's one, I would get in touch with that faith sooner. The other thing too, is that [00:36:00] connection with my kids overrides the Whatever it is that I'm telling them that they should be doing, right?
If I need to course correct or a disciplinary action or anything like that, unless I actually have a connection with them. That's deep and meaningful and emotional and physical and mental and all these things like if I am not literally in lockstep of doing life with them, and I'm interested in things that they're doing and things that they love and things that they don't like, and if I'm not interested in that connection, I will have very little influence on their life.
And a lot of us like to play that parent card. Well, I'm the dad. I said so. Period. There's sometimes you have to play that card, but you're going to get a lot further if you create that connection with them. Um, another thing too, that I would have focused on and I neglected for the first, probably seven to 10 years is my marriage.
And so did my wife. And I think a lot of people make that mistake. They're like, okay, we're parents now. [00:37:00] So, so marriage that one. And I talk about that in the book too, well, that marriage takes a back burner because now we're parents. And I will tell you, I think that that's a major, major mess. Like if you look at like the faith based and spiritual institution of even being married, right, we have actually a tremendous, tremendous, and even I'll be it fun opportunity to show our kids.
What good looks like. And even if we don't know, like, it's like, we're going to explore it. Right. And we'll continue to learn as a couple and we'll be very, very married. Right. Cause like my wife and I have this view of our relationship and we have now for, I would say at least five to seven years of like, we have a tremendous responsibility to show these kids what love admiration, acceptance, appreciation, respect, what good communication, conflict resolution actually looks like.
Or we could show them what bad looks like. So we're committed to say, we are really, really married and our [00:38:00] marriage is on the front burner of the family. Right. Not to say the kids are on the back burner, but, but the kids are not in front of us and we're not in front of them. It's like, it has to be that unit.
Like, Hey, we're both on the front burner and we're going to show you what good
Sathiya Sam: Man, that's really cool. Cause I, and I've mentioned this on the show before, but I remember a couple of months before Judah was born, I was praying one day, spend some time with God and I, I just felt the weight of the world on my shoulders, like I'm about to become a dad and you know what that word means to me, like my dad, you know, has meant so much to me over the years.
My biggest, he's been my biggest fan, huge encourager of me, really gave me permission to just be myself and do the things I'm doing. Um, Especially, especially the last couple of years. Um, and I was feeling the weight of it. And I was asking, I was asking God, What can I do to prepare well for fatherhood?
Like, what's the, like, what are the things I should be focused on? Because with all that pressure, I was feeling like there's a thousand things I could be doing. I'm not going to do the thousand things. I know better than that, but what should [00:39:00] I really be focused on? And it was like, Sathya, if you focus on your marriage, as long as you invest in that, Everything else in parenthood is going to be just fine.
Just keep the marriage the priority. And truthfully, like I hear you say it, it's reminding me of that. It sounds so obvious, but truthfully I was completely gobsmacked by it. I would have never thought of it in a million years. Like I thought God would say something like, be kinder, you know, or like go get some therapy or I don't know.
But like it just, it, and it makes sense when you think about God's design of the family unit, like the, the marriage is the backbone. So it makes sense that if you prioritize that. The family has the infrastructure. It needs to be healthy and you're going to raise kids better that way. But, um, yeah, that's, it's cool.
You're mentioning that, man. Cause that's something that's been really close to my heart. These first six months of fatherhood.
Larry Hagner: Yeah. I think that, and I think if you have any female listeners, they need to hear that message too. Because, um, I think that that's a, that's a human nature thing. Like that's just, we put our kids in front of that [00:40:00] relationship, which I think is a huge miss for your kids and for you
Sathiya Sam: yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay. So these are good. This is good advice. So the faith part of the relationship with God. Prioritizing the marriage. Um, what else you got for us, man? Anything else on that list you want to hit on? Well, obviously we can put a link in the show notes to the uh, Instagram post as well.
Larry Hagner: yeah, um, there's one more. Um, I still don't have all the answers when it comes to my faith based relationship with God. I still view myself just as I'm still a student of dad edge, right? I always say I'm the founder. I'm not only the founder, but I'm also a client. Well, the same is true for. Uh, my faith and I'm still exploring.
I'm still learning. I am like the whitest white belt you could possibly imagine when it comes to that type of thing. But my, my approach to this is, is like when my kids like ask me questions now, here's the cool thing. Sometimes I actually have the answers now and I'm able to explain it. And I mean, I'm even able to be like, Hey man, like let's open, you [00:41:00] know, The book of Ephesians and I'll show you what, you know, what the armor of God is all about and why we need it and why it's important.
We start our day like that. Right. But before I would be like, what's a fee, like, The book of Ephesians, I think I've kind of heard of that, but like, yeah, book, book, chapter six, you know, verse 10 starts about the armor of God. So I'm able to answer those questions. And here's the cool thing too. When my kids ask me a question that I don't know the answer to, I used to get like super intimidated by that.
And I used to be like, well, I'm just letting them down or big time imposter syndrome. And now I'm like, I'm like, dude, that's a great question. I don't know. Let's go find out. And so like we go find out together, which I think is really cool. And it, I think that that makes the journey for your kids and their faith way less in term intimidating as well as like, Oh man, like not only he doesn't know, but we're going to find out together.
That's pretty cool.
Sathiya Sam: Yeah, I love that man. That's cool. So I want to ask because I know data has been around for a long time. And I'm just thinking [00:42:00] about how you've kind of undergone this faith journey the last few years. I know that you have some people. I'm sure there's people that you're leading in your respective programs and groups that maybe are not a faith.
They're figuring stuff out. And this is a conversation I was just having this conversation with some friends yesterday. And I, I feel like God is really doing something in this space that you and I occupy, like the personal development, masculine kind of space. Um, I feel like there's a lot of people that are exploring Christianity, like Chris Williamson.
I don't know if you follow him at all, but he's been talking a little bit about going to church and trying to explore that a bit more. Um, we talked about the mind pump guys. Um, you know, you've been on there before and I'm going to be with them in a bit. And they've been a lot more vocal about their faith the last little bit.
Um, I mean, the list goes on and on, but I feel like there's some kind of shift happening and I'm just curious, like, do you, are you observing that as well? Are there other people that you feel like, has it been lonely going on this journey, or do you feel like there's other people who are kind of, you know, figuring out faith as well, uh, while you've been doing it?
Larry Hagner: It's, it's been [00:43:00] very interesting. Uh, so I, I run a, just kind of give you some background. I run a podcast, Q and a. On Wednesdays. And I have for gosh, a long time. It's probably been, I don't know, three or four years, but for the past, I would say, well, it pretty much since existence, I run it with a, uh, another coach of mine and dad edge, and his name is Joe Bailey, but he, we call him uncle Joe.
Joe is about 10 years older than me. And, uh, he is. Just a savage when it comes to his faith. And when guys ask questions on the podcast, like he'll put it through a lens of faith. So, which I, so that, that being a part of Joe's life and he's one of my coaches, but he's also one of my, one of my mentors when it comes to this kind of stuff.
So having him in my life has, has really evolved. Like, you know, I would say my experience with that edge. Here's what I'll tell you from our members and guys who do life with us, like in the Alliance, it is not a [00:44:00] requirement whatsoever that you are a Christian or that you even have faith in your life. Um, and that's okay.
You know, we, we meet you where you're at. Right. And if, if you're like, Hey, I'm not a believer, that's, that's okay. Like, that's really okay. We're going to help. We're going to help you anyway. Like, and we, we, there's a lot of things that we do from an earth, what I would call what uncle Joe calls an earthly tactical level.
Right. And, but we also offer in the community now, we also offer faith based call teams, you know, for guys who do want to explore their faith. And that's totally optional. So I would say that that's evolved a little bit. Here's the interesting thing. We've lost guys because, you know, I've been outspoken with my faith.
That's okay. We've also gained a lot of guys because I'm talking more about my faith. So it's, it's interesting to see the people in the organization that it turns, turns them off. Even though I am, I, I am not one of those people, and to be quite honest, I don't foresee myself ever being one of those people [00:45:00] to just go in like a bull in a China shop and start talking about my faith to somebody.
Like, I don't do that. I've never done that. I never see foresee myself doing that. However, if someone comes to me and ask questions. I'll absolutely ask answer any question, right? Or I might drop in, like, this is how I approach this. I approach this particular thing through a faith based lens. And here's why, but, you know, I, I would say it's been really interesting to see, you know, people come and go that.
And that's the reason why people come in because they're like, man, this is awesome. Finally, you're talking about your faith. And then people will be like, you're talking about your faith. So I'm
Sathiya Sam: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Really interesting, man. Um, where do you think, uh, the whole language around fatherhood goes 5, 10 years? Cause I, I feel like fathers are I don't know. I, I just feel like the messaging is changing. I think about when I grew up and I grew up like watching the Simpsons, you know, we're like, Homer's just portrayed as like this bumbling idiot and America loved it, you [00:46:00] know, because there was some sort of, I don't know if it was a residence or it's like, Oh, my dad's exactly like that.
Hopefully not. But I think fathers have been portrayed that way. I even think of like Phil Dunphy in modern family, right? That's a more recent example. Um, But I, I feel like there's, there's like this divide where it's like, in some ways people are like, yeah, down with men, men suck. And you know, girl power.
Um, and I think you also have movements of people who are saying like, no, like, you know, like, I think what you're pioneering with that are just so powerful because you're showing to me, you're showing what it means to be a real man and a real father, a real husband in our society, which is yes, you're the leader of the home and yes, there's a strength that comes with that.
And it's having that authority. Yeah. Um, but with it comes responsibility, with it comes tactical empathy. The, my favorite Larry Hagner quote of all time or phrase of all time. Like some of those things that I think are, are softer skills. I think you show a really good blend of that. Um, I would like to think that's the direction that I think we're going in, you know, and setting those prototypes of what a [00:47:00] man should be, what a father should be.
Do you, do you think the same or what do you see in the next, I don't know, five, 10 years of fatherhood?
Larry Hagner: So first, I like, I think I was one of the, I was one of the few that was podcasting almost a decade ago on this topic. And part of the reason I started a podcast was there was nothing else really out there much like it. But number two, cause I really wanted to learn, but I think that you're, you're, we're seeing now, uh, different men who are stepping up now and really talking about this topic, which I love that, you know, it's cause we need, we need strong voices out there talking about this topic because I truly think, um, as, as men start to step up, because I think quite frankly, I have a lot of, a lot of people think that, you know, it's doom and gloom out there, And it is to some degree, if that's the way you look at it, but I also think that you're seeing a wave of men who are staking a flag in the ground saying, no more, [00:48:00] no, this is not, we're not the Homer Simpsons.
You know, we're not the Al Bundy's we're, we're, we're not the, we're not the Peter Griffin shot there. I tell you, we're not those either. And uh, and I think men are tired of that. And they're like. No, I'm not doing it that way. I'm an, I'm going to be a good man who takes care of his wife, who loves his wife, who's there for his kids.
And I'm going to learn how to do it. Period.
Sathiya Sam: yeah,
Larry Hagner: With that being said, I think we're also in a society that the enemy clearly knows that that's going on. You're you're in this space of helping men overcome porn. Porn has never been more accessible than it is right now. And if you really want to steal a man's like soul and his motivation and really take him away from his purposeful life or best relationships, like give him easy access to porn because it's right there.
So I think, I think the more we, we turn up the, um, the intensity of being good men, the more, the [00:49:00] more vices are going to, I mean, like you're seeing it with porn. The legalization of weed. I don't know what's coming next, but like to make us these, these other vices, just to make us softer, make us more tolerant of media mediocrity.
Like, I think we're going to see that over and over. We've got to be ready for it. And the way to be ready for it is to arm ourselves with information, with the right people, with community, and to make sure that whatever it is you're taking in media wise. That that media isn't eating away at a human being that you want
Sathiya Sam: yeah, really well said man, yeah, I totally agree. The book is called The Spirit of Fatherhood, um, I know that's gonna be out, I think right around the time this episode comes out. Definitely a must read. We'll make sure there's links for everybody to get it. Uh, if guys want to connect with you, um, elsewhere or otherwise, Larry, what's the best way for them to do that?
Larry Hagner: You know, I, I'm not that hard to find. And a lot of people like will message me like on Instagram and they'll be like, is this really Larry that answers all these? Yes. [00:50:00] It's really me. I swear to God, like my team does not answer DMS. I answer DMS. So I'm on Facebook and, and, and Instagram and on LinkedIn, you can find me under my name, Larry Hagner, also at the dad edge everywhere else.
Um, Ask me any question. I'm always here for you. Like, um, you know, if you want to, if you want to look into resources, we have, you can go to the data. com for slash resources. I've got a bunch of free things there for you. Like conversation starters with your wife, marriage patients with your kids, the whole nine yards, uh, mastermind.
You can always go to the data. com for slash mastermind. We have two different programs, one for. Business owners and one for non
Sathiya Sam: Nice. And you do, you guys do events, right? You having a summit coming up?
Larry Hagner: We do. It's a, it's going to be October 17th and 18th this year. And, uh, it's going to be in Orlando, Florida.
Sathiya Sam: Love it, man. So we'll put links in the show notes to all of it. Always appreciate talking with you, man. Congrats on the book and glad to see you healthy. Getting back in, uh, get [00:51:00] back at it. Um, yeah. Cheering you on, man. Thanks for your time.
Larry Hagner: Appreciate you, brother.
All right. Well, there you have it, man. Uh, so appreciate Larry, appreciate his heart, appreciate his wisdom. And I'll tell you as a learning father, I feel like I'm getting mentored by guys like Larry. He probably doesn't even realize it, but, uh, I just learned a ton. And like I said, there was a lot that he shared there that I just don't think Larry typically talks about.
So it was pretty fun to get into it, man. I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did. Make sure you go check out his book, the spirit of fatherhood. Um, and You can just kind of tell it's, it's chock full of a lot of wisdom, a lot of goodness. Uh, look, we also talked about porn addiction. Uh, and we talked about how, you know, we want to leave a legacy for our kids and hopefully for our kids kids, like the Bible instructs us to do so.
And I know for me, the one thing that I'm really like when I think about why I quit pornography, what makes me grateful to have a porn free life, probably top of the list these days, especially as a new father is that I've [00:52:00] changed my lineage. I've changed my family line. And my son and my future kids, however many there may be, and all of their kids are going to live a different life because of the choices and the decisions I made just a few years ago to quit pornography.
And I couldn't help but think of you as well and wonder if maybe if you finally took the leap to quit pornography successfully, you committed the next four to six months of your life to do it and to do it really well. How that could change, not just your life, but the lives of those who are going to come after you, your kids, their kids, and the generations that come after.
Uh, we have a program that helps guys quit pornography by getting to the roots of the issue. We don't do the internet filters. We don't do the willpower. Uh, we don't do like the white knuckling. We were much bigger believers that if we can just focus on the causal elements, everything else starts to kind of take care of itself.
If you want to find out more about that program, it's called deep clean. I put together a case study video. You can click the link in the show notes and check it out. See if it's a good fit for you. No pressure. Uh, it's not a [00:53:00] fit for everyone. And some people find other ways to recover. That's totally fine.
But you got nothing to lose by checking out what we're up to and seeing if it's a good fit. We'd love to see if we could serve you in that way. In the meantime, guys, thank you so much for listening. Much love to you. Appreciate you. Have a great week. We'll talk soon. Bye bye.
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