UMW - Sathiya Sam - Ep xxx3
===
[00:00:00] Hey, hey, what's up, everybody? It's the Thea Sam here. Welcome to Unleash the Man with Dan. Thank you so much for tuning in. Got a great episode today. I'm really excited to jump into. Kind of trending topics right now, actually. So, uh, so we'll be all over that. Uh, before I jump in really quick, if you have not left a rating or review on our podcast, I want to take a minute and just ask you if you'd be willing to do that.
Only if you've got some value. Okay. If you're still sussing us out, I get it. But if you've been listening for a while, you've gotten some value. [00:01:00] Please leave a rating or review. It goes a long way for us spreading the word. Reaching more people and signaling to other people who need this content that this is a good place for them to come.
It's a place where they can get trusted information and hopefully improve the quality of their lives. So that would mean a lot to us. And if you have already left a rating or review, thank you very much. Please continue to share the word. It helps us a lot. We really appreciate it. Let's jump in, Sean. I want to lead with a bold statement today.
Which is that Christians need to stop listening to pastors who say that mental illness isn't real What do you think? It's such a crazy topic I think the crazy thing about that statement is that there's the Kind of the preface of if it's not in the Bible, then it's not something that we're gonna deal with And it's really challenging because, you know, cell phones aren't in the Bible and look at all the challenges it's caused, right?
We, [00:02:00] we don't read the Bible to learn about how trees are watered, right? Like, we have the creation plan, the salvation of humans in the Bible, and a lot of the details of how we sanctify our lives to become more like Christ. But, To kind of learn about the creator's creation. It's not really in the Bible a whole lot.
And that's an interesting lens to look at it from. So I do think there's harm in a bold, flat out blanket statement like that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, and are you talking about my statement? Are you talking about the statement that pastors are making about mental illness? Just so it's clear. Yeah. Yeah. Any, as somebody says, like, Flat out.
You know, this, this doesn't exist. It's not a thing. I think that's a really harmful blanket statement. Yeah. So now your statement. Yeah, obviously we're, we're talking about John MacArthur's comments. I don't mind using his name cause I don't think he would care. Um, and he basically, you know, his, this clip has gone viral.
Um, and it's the second time he's [00:03:00] gone viral for basically saying that mental illness is not real. And that we need to stop talking about it. And I, I believe his statement was something to the effect of we don't do pastoral counseling in our ministry because we're so concentrated on the joy of the Lord.
Something to that effect. So, uh, that, that was, that was the state, that's the person that we're referencing. He does represent a contingent of believers though, who would agree. And who would say, yeah, you know, forget counseling, forget therapy, forget. Your emotions, they don't matter, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Um, and it comes from a place of, of loving the word of God, wanting to honor the Bible, you know, so there's, there's a degree there where it's like, I love, I love that. Actually, I love that zeal for the word of God. It's really unfortunate messaging though, cause it is so anti biblical. It's not even funny.
I mean, David, the only person who is described in the Bible as being a man after God's own heart. is the most emotional person you will find [00:04:00] in the Bible. The dude is, uh, he's all over the place, hard on his sleeve, like chest wide open at all times. Um, the, the whole premise of emotions and mental wellbeing is about as biblical as it gets.
And it's more than just, intellectualism or cognitive capacity, like, like we're supposed to love God with our heart, soul, mind, and strength. So anyway, uh, it's driving me crazy a little bit, you know, I, I, this messaging is so toxic and it's also a little bit triggering for me. You know, I grew up in some pretty staunch Calvinistic environments and this messaging wasn't.
It wasn't overt, but it was there, you know, it was either implicit or the way people would react to people who are emotional and stuff. You could just kind of tell there wasn't a huge value for it. So it's got to change, man. We got to stop listening to these people. Yeah. Yeah. I think the main issue that I have with it and I'll share a story of, uh, someone that I, some um, A couple that my wife and I knew [00:05:00] is that it really lacks compassion.
It becomes a very Bible thumper, like truth hammer kind of approach. And, um, Helen and I had coached a couple that was really like. Basically ready to call off their marriage and like they were engaged and ready to call off the marriage because of the porn addiction. Uh, Helena helped her with betrayal trauma.
I helped him with porn recovery and they had so much healing so much so that they actually make, I think a year into their marriage started their own ministry to help other couples with porn recovery and betrayal trauma. And we decided that we would do some training with them. I don't remember the timing.
Let's just say it was two years into their marriage, maybe something like that. And I guess, From when they coached with us, obviously, we, we combine science and scripture. We combine the spiritual and the science and the psychological, and they had amazing breakthroughs and transformation from that. And then I think they started getting discipled more from the Calvinistic perspective.
Uh, the [00:06:00] psychology is the cesspool of the world mentality that, you know, you can't have anything good come from people like Freud. Et cetera, because they were just such atheists. Um, and, and that really affected the relationship we had with them. And there became a place of no conversation where we were basically speaking heresy and we were wrong.
And there was no conversation. They were right. And that's it. And that's the problem I see with this is it doesn't open up lanes of conversation. Like with inner child work, I spent like four months while running a business That was kind of built on a lot of inner child work. I started to become very skeptical.
Like, is this actually a biblical godly approach? And I investigated everything I possibly could. I don't see them really doing that. I feel like they have a very hard lens and they don't really explore, ask questions. I feel like it's like this way or the highway, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that investigation is, it has to be done.
Right. Cause [00:07:00] I think like anyone can find dirt in a, in a gold mine. Right. It's like, but it actually takes effort to find the gold. And I think sometimes we get, we, we treat the Bible. I'll just, um, my pastor says it really well. He says the Bible was not written to you. It was written for you. And the reason he says that is like, if you read the book of first Corinthians, you know, talks about sexual immorality and all that kind of stuff, well, or actually, maybe that's not a great example.
Maybe a better example would be like head coverings for women or something like that. New year going there. Yeah, it's written to a specific church. Um, and that, that text is for us as well. Now, it doesn't mean that women have to wear head coverings. I think we can understand, like, there are, there are specifics that are, you know, to the time, to the culture, to whatever, and you have to, you have to be able to interpret.
In a multi dimensional way to really get to the [00:08:00] truth of, you know, what, what's the message God's trying to get to us in the year 2024, as we read, you know, text that was written thousands of years ago. And I think it's lost in a lot of the arguments against psychology and therapy and you know, what I would deem emotional wellness.
But I, I think even if we, even if we did lose that battle and it's like, okay, you know what? Fair enough. It's not in the Bible. You know, inner child work isn't in the Bible and validating emotions isn't in the Bible. And, you know, I don't know what all the other arguments are, but okay, we lose that argument.
Let's just look at the fruit, like who are the people that we know of that are have the healthiest emotional lives that had the greatest. You know, mental stability and strength and have a lifestyle in their relationships that we would be envious of, or that we would at least say that's exemplary. Um, it's probably not the John MacArthur's of this world, or, you know, like when I look at some of the people that are like unbelievably staunch [00:09:00] and very much like, is it in the Bible verbatim?
Well, then we don't care about it. Uh, those are like miserable, cranky men that are like very difficult to deal with. Um, you know, the relationship quality is pretty low. I've been part of some of the churches that are like this, and you can kind of feel the, the baseline level of misery that exists In every gathering because people are shut off.
Their hearts are literally shut off because their theology doesn't allow room for it. So I think, I think this is like the other side of it because we could wrestle with the theology all day. And, and again, like. Calvinists know their word. They know the bible and a lot of these guys go through catechism and they They they're they're not it's not just opinion like they they again They come from a place that really values the word of god But I think the fruit has to demonstrate something as well And that's as biblical as it gets a tree is known by its fruit You know, I I think that part is often where that was [00:10:00] that was the big Turning point for me.
Cause like I said, I did grow up in more Calvinist environments. And that was when I started to look around and say, yeah, why are these people so miserable? And they're so critical. And I remember one time, um, I'm rambling here now, but this will be my last thing. Um, we went to a wedding and we went to a wedding that was at a non Calvinist church.
Okay. This is a group of friends. We all are part of Calvinist. Churches and circles and and whatnot and they in particular, you know, I was like sort of sandwiched in the middle, but We're all not in that group. And so we go to this wedding and everyone's like obviously excited and smiley It's a it's a wedding, you know, but this church was also just like a little bit more They were just happier people.
And we got back in the car and we, I think we were actually driving from the ceremony to the reception venue. And I remember them saying like, Oh man, do you see how fake those people were? You know, like nobody's that nobody could be that happy. Like that was their statement. It was like, nobody could be that happy.
Cause they, they [00:11:00] had no concept of what, like the real joy of the Lord actually meant or what it looked like to the point that when they saw people who were experiencing it, they, they were criticizing them. They were criticizing the very thing that they wanted in life. So anyways, I just think. The fruit speaks louder than, you know, anything else.
Wow. Yeah. I think the, this was something that I've gone on the journey the last couple of years to learn more about, you know, Armenian is, um, Calvinism, like, you know, reform theology doesn't necessarily mean Calvinism. That's a very, Far, uh, we want to say far right of reformed theology if we want to put it that way.
But, um, a lot of the, a lot of the Calvinism would fall into cessation is where they don't believe the Holy Spirit moves anymore. So we want to look at the argument from a bigger picture as well, where if someone's a cessationist, yeah, they're, they're probably not going to believe in the Holy Spirit moving through someone's experiential.
So you need to look at their perspective as well and realize, yeah, if they're believing the Holy Spirit's not moving anymore, now you understand why [00:12:00] the Bible is all they have. So it is important to recognize that. Um, one of my best friends, he's in Canada. Um, unfortunately he's in Canada, so I don't get to see him anymore.
Um, I've been telling him for two years now, like, dude, like, Let's do some of this like experiential inner healing prayer together. Let's do, I've given him books and everything. And he's been open, but he's had this, like, there was this thing he read in a, an old book more from the Calvinistic perspective that if you open your imagination to God, Your imagination can become an idol and maybe there's merit to that, but he finally like just pushed that thought to the side like two weeks ago and said he had the most impactful prayer session of his life that he started bawling.
And I was like, wow, yes, dude, that's what I've been talking about for two years with you, man. It was so precious. And I think that's what this guy is very committed Christian who loves the word him. And I are discipling each other weekly for an hour and a half. It's like, That is what I think healthy Christianity looks [00:13:00] like.
Yeah, that's a fascinating statement though. Like you said, the imagination, if it's open to God, it can become an idol. Yeah, I don't get it. Yeah, because I guess it's true. Like, I guess, I guess technically you could start to imagine things and the things you imagine start to take precedence over, you know, what the Word of God says or whatever.
I guess that's where they're going. That's true about everything like money. Money would be a great example. Where it's like, yeah, if you, if you become too concerned with money, um, yeah, you can only, you can't have two masters, right? Like it's God or mammon. But that doesn't mean that we don't pay our bills or that we don't steward the resources well either.
Right? Like that, that's the real act. It's. It's actually, it's classic. Now that I think about it more, where we brought in this a little bit more, it's classic black and white thinking, isn't it? Right. Like it's, it's either or, and people who fall into black and white thinking never get their desired outcome because the real result is always [00:14:00] somewhere in the middle.
It's somewhere where there's a, there's a balance where it's like, yeah, you can't just imagine whatever you want and call it the truth. But God gave you an imagination for a reason and a sanctified imagination is incredibly powerful. So, you know, it's kind of the same deal with like emotions and mental wellness and psychology and all that stuff.
But yeah, yeah, that's well said, man. Yeah. Real quick. I'll just say, um, as Protestants, you know, the reformer Martin Luther, there was a group of guys that I read his autobiography and there was a bunch of guys that started running with his idea. But then becoming very legalistic about the concepts against the, um, purgatory and indulgences.
And they started basically saying music is sinful and all these like really beautiful things are sinful. And Martin Luther basically just said, well, Hey, you know, women can cause people to sin. We should just get rid of them too.
He was so smart. Yeah. Yeah. But that's exactly it. Right. It's like, yeah, you can't. [00:15:00] It's just not how it works. It's just, it's a strange, now I will say to like, I love to play devil's advocate. You know, I think it's always helpful to get a different angle to it. I do think, and in the church, I would say this is where I see it the most, but I'm also more involved in church than I am, you know, in non faith communities, but in the church, the whole mental illness thing.
is sometimes encroaches dangerously on being idolatrous or an identity. Yeah. And some people are justifying not hitting the standards of the word or not really living that more holy righteous lifestyle. Or even just like a spiritually balanced lifestyle in the name of mental illness and whatnot. Yeah.
And I think that's, that's where I can understand John MacArthur's rub. Like I can understand why he's a little bit irritated by that. I don't know if that's really what he was reacting to. Yeah. But I think that's the one [00:16:00] angle that I can see. Yeah. There's some valid, there's some validity to that point.
Like people are. They are forming identities out of their diagnoses or out of mental illness. And I think we're losing some of that, like renewing of the mind and meditating on whatever's true, noble, just, et cetera. So I, I think. I think there is something to be said from, from that angle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think like, you know, Elijah exhausted and afraid of Jezebel running.
Um, you know, a doctor nowadays would say he has depression and anxiety and needs pills. Yeah. Right. It's like, God said, you need to rest and some food and you'll be okay. Yeah. And it's interesting because that is wise counsel. And I guess their perspective is that, you know, maybe we can get that counsel from the word of God.
But interestingly enough, that came from. God speaking to Elijah where we have that in the Holy Spirit today. So again, that goes back to that, that cessationist argument, I think. Yeah. See, that's an, and that's another really good point because I think for me, the Holy Spirit [00:17:00] is what gives life to therapeutic techniques.
You know what I mean? Like, um, we were looking at a therapist the other day. I forget what, what was this for anyway, it doesn't matter, but they do inner child work. Um, but then they didn't mention any faith stuff in their profile or whatever. I think maybe this was actually when we were looking for a marriage therapist.
And again, not to say that inner child work is ineffective without God or the Holy Spirit, because obviously therapists around the world are using it effectively and probably not involving the Holy Spirit. But for me personally, what makes inner child work so powerful. Powerful is the presenting Jesus, finding Jesus part of it, right?
Like that's what brings all of this stuff together. And, um, again, it's hard to imagine why a Christian would ever be against that in the first place. Um, but secondly, I think, I think that's, that's the interesting dynamic is I guess that is why they could be against it because they see these therapeutic techniques and they don't have a value for the Holy spirit speaking real time, mending memories, you know, [00:18:00] all those kinds of things.
So. You know, you can kind of see like, okay, yeah, I guess, I guess that's where, yeah, maybe that's where they get hung up a little bit. Totally. Yeah, it's a really challenging topic. I was listening to Nehemiah the other day and, uh, you know, Nehemiah is looking sad. Sounds like he's typically more of a joyful person.
Um, the, the cup bearer of King Artaxerxes and King Artaxerxes asked him, like, you know, Hey, like you look sad. Like what's wrong? He says, you know, the, the, the town of my ancestors is laying in ruin. Like, what am I supposed to do? And King Artaxerxes says, how can I help? Like, what are you asking of me? And, and, and that's really beautiful.
This non Christian cesspool of, of the world. counsels him in some way, shape, or form of being compassionate and curious and ends up being the catalyst to helping me and Maya restore the wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that's where sometimes I'm like, Christians, sometimes we just do it to ourselves. Cause [00:19:00] I, I would say like even the fields of psychotherapy and whatnot.
They were a lot more quickly adopted outside of the church before they made their way inside. And there is, there is a degree of health to that. Like, I think the church should be very careful about what they allow in and whatnot. But it, you know, when I, it's sad to say, like when I was starting to learn about business and managing finances, I could not really find a lot of Christians that were talking about it effectively.
There were Christians who had messages, but like the messages that to me made the most sense that clicked and that were clearly producing great fruit. They're all coming from people that were either non Christian or, you know, Christian ish Christian by marketing, not necessarily by message. Um, and that's, That part is really frustrating me.
That's, that's a whole nother, that's another side project for future Sophia to tackle one day, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, the church has, as, um, it's good that we wakened up to it, but yeah, we got to be careful. Absolutely. [00:20:00] Yeah. Couldn't agree more. It's a big topic. I'm glad that, uh, the, the approaches that we bring into the coaching realm of deep clean, really, I feel like we, we really do test them.
And that's an important part of our practice is not to just do something because it's working. Um, the enemy loves things that work. So it's really important to us to test things, uh, with the Bible, with the Holy Spirit. And sit on them for more than a day and make sure that they actually feel right over time rather than just, Oh man, this is working.
It must be from the Lord. Now that does not mean it's working because it's from the Lord. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, very true. Yeah, yeah. There's a, there's a lot of, a lot of angles to this. So maybe the way we'll wrap this up before we answer some questions is what. Where can people look in the Bible? Cause we, we had to kind of, um, think about this as we were building out some course content, we just did an inner child module for clients who, who work a little bit longer with us once they go past the first leg with us, if they want to continue, we give them some deeper content and we wanted to [00:21:00] defend the biblical part of inner child work.
But I think we could even broaden this a little bit. Sean, what, what for you have been some scriptures that have really helped you I guess, uh, approve of and, you know, now like really appreciate therapeutic techniques in general and maybe inner child work more specifically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously, Job with the friends that don't do a very good job of helping him through his struggle, uh, can be a great one to go to.
We see in the Gospels, Jesus's love for the heart of a child and most people's. Childhood. It was full of a lot of pain and trauma and poor messages. I think the Lord cares about reclaiming that child heart of us. But I think therapy is actually one of the ways we do that with him. We allow him to re parent us.
And then I think Roman seven has just been kind of a pivotal one for me where Paul's really wrestling with this internal battle. And anybody who struggled with mental health or an addiction again. Part of me wants to do what's good and part of me doesn't. And I think that really speaks to what people go through.
Like, it's not [00:22:00] Paul's just guy going through. Everyone can relate to what Paul's saying there, even if in the theological realm, that is one of the most confusing scriptures in the whole Bible. You can pick up that message and say, whoa, like he has an internal war going on from the consequences of sin, his own sin and the consequence of other people's sin.
Yeah, yeah, those are great great points. I think the ones I would add in, you know, the one thing I would always encourage people to do when they're exploring this is just read through the Bible, especially in the Gospels, and just look for any time Jesus talks about the heart. Like, what is he talking about when he talks about the heart?
Like, you are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. What does that mean? And does it, does it or does it not involve your emotions? That's what we're ultimately asking, right? And I mean, for me, I don't see how it couldn't, and I think it's a, it's a coward's way out to simply say, emotions don't matter and we can ignore them.
That's the easy way out, but it leads to, uh, well, it puts a ceiling over the amount of [00:23:00] joy, peace, love, like all the fruits of the spirit are basically stifled when you sever your emotions, the real strength of a person is actually being able to deal with emotions as uncomfortable, Or challenging as they might be.
And, um, and I think, you know, again, I referenced, uh, it's Matthew, um, uh, forgetting the reference now, where, where is it that Jesus gets asked? Is it Matthew, um, 24, uh, some, somewhere around there where Jesus gets asked the greatest commandment, love the Lord, your God, your heart, soul, mind, and strength, you know, in Luke six 45 out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speak.
So again, what is he connecting it to? Like, what's he really talking about when he talks about your heart? It's not just your motives and intents. Like your emotions are all wrapped up into this. Even if you look at the Greek words like cardia or, uh, the Hebrew word for heart is leap. Um, and so when you look at these, it's, it's, um, one of the definitions of leave is, is the seat of emotion, the seat of emotion, like where your emotions sit.
Um, and so there's a huge part of this. And, uh, again, I just say it takes a superior man [00:24:00] to manage his emotions. Than to simply neglect them and say that they don't matter. So anyways, we'll wrap it up there. Let's jump into some questions. What's up, Alexis? How you doing, man? Yeah. What's good. How you doing?
How you guys doing? Okay. Yeah, we're good, man. We're good, man. Nice to meet you. How can we help? All right. I had a question and it was simply saying that I'm turning 23 this year and I'm a Nigerian. I struggled with porn and masturbation for about seven to eight years until 2020. where it stopped for about two years with no slips or relapses and but in December 2022, it came back all of a sudden and it's still an issue these days and I figured out it was because it came back because of my parental issues with my mom and dad.
But the question is, like, what do I do now that I know the symptoms and the causes, but occasionally keep falling into the same fight against the urge when it comes, even though I know where it's coming from and why it came from there. And I'm also dating someone and [00:25:00] she's also aware of the issue. Okay.
Hey, that's a great question, man. So for starters, Congrats on two years, you know, after, after seven, eight years of struggling two years of no slips, no relapses, uh, is amazing. Um, my first question would be what happened in December, 2022, like when everything starts to flood back, what happened around anything going on in your life around that time?
Um, well, yeah, I was, um, so in my country, there's this stuff we do after school. It's called a, like, camp where we go and work for our country for about a year. But before we go to the camp, we all go into this, like, a camp and, you know, just do all, like, training for about three weeks. So I was there for a while and, you know, when we are done with the camp, we have to get employed by a, um, governmental organization.
to work for a period of one year. So in that period of time, what was going on that I, you know, my dad has connections, you know, but he didn't help me and I was quite stranded. So I do, I do realize that, um, I was alone, you [00:26:00] know, I didn't know where to go. I was just, and I kept asking for help, but he just didn't do anything.
So I think that really, you know, I call my mom. My mom was complaining and say, Oh, you know, your dad this your dad that. I think that really, yeah, that's, there's some stress going on. Yeah. That's what happened. It came back. Yeah. How long have you been dating? Um, two years, two years, two years. Yeah. Two years.
So did you start date? Did you start dating her around that same time as well? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Got it. So I mean, a couple of things here, number one, I, I think it's good that you've identified like, Hey, you probably need to get a little bit more to the root of the issues. Um, I would say, so typically when we see someone who has.
Had about a freedom for however long it's been, you know, a couple of years and then they slip again. Usually it's a major life change. Um, that brings, I would say, a level of stress that there, that you weren't prepared for. You [00:27:00] didn't have the tools or you weren't equipped to handle it. So that's what it sounds like.
You talked, you talked about the career stress right away. Um, and like you did reference your relationship with your parents and your dad wasn't helping you out. So, uh, I think you've, you've nailed that part for sure. Um, I did ask about the relationship part as well though, because that can often be like, if we're not really managing ourselves well, or we haven't gotten to the roots of the issues, getting into a dating relationship can be very triggering.
Just the existence of romantic feelings suddenly becomes very triggering. So you might have a couple of different dynamics. I'm going to talk about. Some of the triggering parts of it. And I would love for Sean, Sean's like really good with the, I think the parental issues and he might have some other questions for you.
Uh, what I'll say with the triggers, um, and those kinds of things is your, your big focus on that and should be just managing. Stress and starting to pay attention to your trigger. So if I were you, I would have a journal every time that you feel a trigger, you're writing it down and then you're specifying.
Is this [00:28:00] internal or is it external? And you're writing the specifics of it. So external would be like my girlfriend and I were holding hands. I start to experience some arousal. That's external. It's just, it's something more physical, something visible. Internal might be, um, you know, uh, job stress at work and I don't know how to, I don't know how to handle it.
Um, like you need some clarity and some definition. on the triggers and what's going on there. I think that would be probably the most helpful thing on the front end so that once you do start to get some momentum going here again, these things can really go a long way in those weaker moments to just preventing it and making sure that you kind of, you know, you stay healthy and you stay clean.
So that would be my recommendation for the trigger side of things. Yeah, so, uh, yeah, the very idea of knowing what the problem is that you talk about the, the parental problems that can almost create more madness when we name those things and don't know how to deal with them. Like, it's like, oh, now I know all the [00:29:00] issues I have in my life.
And, uh, okay, thanks so much. I don't know what to do with them. And, and, uh, Sometimes guys think that that's kind of the bread and butter of, you know, once I name my traumas, then I'm, then I'm going to be healthier. It's like, it actually is harder unless you know what to do with them. So, um, I'd love to know a little bit more of the details of what you've been able to pinpoint, but what you were saying, like your dad has connections in the career field and he didn't help you.
That would make me wonder. How did you feel unhelped by him growing up? Or did you feel like he neglected you? Or did you feel voids of intimacy and significance? Maybe with your mother, like she married that guy. You know, when you look at marital dynamics, it's like, what did your mom have to make up for your dad?
And maybe she missed out on nurture because she had to do this for him and all these other things. We want to see really at the heart of it is what were the unmet needs for you growing up? And what is still unmet? And you're using porn and masturbation as an outlet. What emotions are getting triggered That are in control of you because you felt them as a child and they overwhelmed you and scared you and you [00:30:00] ran to pornography or you ran to food.
You really want to look at like what Sophia is saying. You want to get this trigger plan. When I start to ask, like, when did I start to feel that in a way of being out of control when I was younger? When did I start to believe these lies that I, that I now realize are in control of me when I was younger?
They probably go back to your parents, but if if they go elsewhere, you'll have some more evidence. But you want to start asking what did I need in those seasons? What did I need in those moments that maybe is still unmet? And what do I need to do to? Yeah, journal, regulate myself, get those needs met in a way that's actually healthy today.
Not just through pornography, masturbation. Growing up with my parents, there were a lot of issues that I did that I didn't know what they meant because I grew up, um, they were not divorced, but I grew up in a single home, right?
My father was not always there. So I didn't really have, the father figure. I didn't have it at all. So, you know, and that period of time I was living with him. So it was really a very weird experience because you know, you're, I mean, you're, you're in your 20s and you're living with a guy who you don't have, you [00:31:00] have nothing, just know that he's your father, you know, and he's really, really weird navigating.
And yeah, sometimes I do journal. I mean, I read your book. I'm still reading your book. Um, that's the, um, the Last Relapse I'm still reading the book. And I journaled a lot. And my girlfriend helped me with that as well. She's one that even called me to journal. I was very, very off about journaling, but she called me to journal a lot.
So I journal a lot now. So, okay. I, I am doing that work to find out the deeper roots to, you know, do the healing. And I am getting, I would say the past few weeks, it has been easier in some kind of way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, where in the book are you? Um, I'm about to start chapter six, chapter six. Yeah.
Chapter six. Okay, good. That's good. Did you get the workbook? Are you doing the workbook as well? Okay. Okay. That's good. So you would have got some clarity then on, on some of these dynamics, um, that we were talking about. How did you find the, the like healing part of it? Like some of the forgiveness and [00:32:00] those pieces that are, um, I forget if that chapter four or chapter five, somewhere in there.
I think that's four or five. Um, how did I find, I found it really, well, I would say it was really. Um, the right word would be shocking do you understand because I mean, my mom did raise me a lot and you know, she did her best, but it was trying to realize that, you know, she didn't really do everything the way that it was, I thought it was, it was meant to be because my dad wasn't there and you know, it kind of pre conditioned my mind to be like, it's okay.
Mama is the good one. Daddy is the bad one, you know, and that's not the whole case. That's not the true story. So it's, yeah. Yeah, it was. It was already shocking. Yeah. It was just shocking. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna, I was gonna ask, you know, we got the element here of, um, 2022, you got the career, you got the starting a relationship, you know, all of that to the side, really at the core of a lot of this is, you know, your dad wasn't there probably a lot of times where you needed him physically, [00:33:00] emotionally, spiritually.
How do you see that affecting your intimacy with Jesus today? Um, well, uh, I would say that my intimacy with Jesus is, um, it actually, it actually increased. Um, that 2020 was when I stopped because of Jesus, you know, I remember an episode where you guys did about, You know, casting out demons and, you know, the effect of that and that, that, that was what happened to me then, you know, and my mom found out, I came, I came, not found, I came clean, you know, um, you know, it was, my sister had some issues, so I just said, you know what, I'm also having issues, and so I came out and we prayed and, you know, that's what, that was what led to that two years of, you know, no slips, but I was, that's, that's why I was really shocked when he came back, because I thought I'm over this, you know, but after it came up, you know, I started seeing God more as less of a, dictator You know, I said, okay, he's aware of this.
He, this happened and you know, um, I'm seeing, I'm seeing a work in progress and he, he, he's not [00:34:00] going to shoot at me or, you know, shoot me and I just find it more comforting to go to him. And that's how it's stronger than it was. I mean, even when I first, you know, stopped, even right now. One of the things I'd encourage you to consider here, Alexius, is the challenging part of when we go through shifts like that as an adult.
So, I've had clients where, you know, they were abused by their mom or dad or, like, could be emotional, you know, could be physical. But, you know, at age nine, their parents ended up finding Christ and totally changed. And the child had actually became very healthy. The beauty thing there is there was change, and there's a lot less trauma and pain, but the problem is there was a child from age zero to eight or nine that didn't live in a healthy household, and there's still a lot of baggage that needs to be healed.
So, you know, you had this wonderful experience, man. What a what an incredible thing.
I'm wondering if there's parts of you that [00:35:00] maybe haven't experienced that type of intimacy with Christ that, you know, when things are this or that intimate with Christ, maybe seems a little bit easier because of this deliverance, but maybe there's a younger version of yourself when we look at things like inner child work, where, when, when dad was all the time gone, maybe there was, there's still something there to explore and, and that's something that I do with clients a lot as we allow Jesus to really Come in with the true gospel to kind of the boy within us that didn't know the gospel or didn't know the love of God because of how dad treated us.
And man, there's so much therapy that happens there. And it's all about the gospel. So I love you've had this experience. I'd love for you to have more of those experiences. Yeah, and I was, I think chapter six and seven will actually really help you. So you're, you're actually in a pretty good spot for some of the things we're talking about, like fostering that intimacy with God and, you know, killing that relationship.
Cause I think Sean's right. You know, the, there's dynamics with your mom, there's dynamics with your dad. And I think if you can [00:36:00] heal through those and really, you know, clear your template, if you will, for your connection with God. That's going to serve as your plumb line for everything else. So, um, yeah, so you got some good pieces in place, man.
Hopefully this was helpful a little bit. Thanks. Thanks for calling in. Yeah. Thank you guys. Nice to meet you. Alexis. All right. God bless you. I love you guys. I listen every single day. So I love what you guys are doing. Thanks, man. That's so nice. That's so kind. It's great to meet you, man. God bless you guys.
Thanks, man. God bless you too. All right. Bye. Hey there, how are you doing? Doing well, doing well. Nice to meet you. My question is this, uh, Can you discuss living for Christ in a sexless marriage? How to stay pure when sex and marriage is not possible for a variety of reasons. And maybe even discuss, uh, the [00:37:00] notion of entitlement that some of us guys have.
Uh, trust me, just from our experience with our clients and Interacting with the listeners of the show you, um, you know, this is a very common experience. So, um, so I think it's good that we're talking about it. Uh, if I'm just going to ask this question and you're welcome to say no, but, um, you mentioned that, um, like there are reasons that sex is not possible.
Are you comfortable divulging any of those reasons? Yeah. Um, so one, a few things. One is, uh, loss of libido on my wife's part. Second, Some of that on my part, um, age there's, and I haven't clarified in my own mind whether this is the case or not, but I've even with my doctor, I'm not sure is whether or not some ED that I experienced is porn induced [00:38:00] or if it's just because I'm 66 and diabetic.
So that's why I said for a variety of reasons. Yeah. Um, but, uh, You know, my, my thing has been is that, uh, we've had some success and I'm working on things around intimacy. They're not necessarily sexual so that we keep the marriage. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The, the libido issues on your part, um, and I know you mentioned some ed in there.
How long have those been around?
On and off for a couple of years. Um, I think better since I have, uh, stopped looking at pornography. Yeah, I believe that. Trust me. Yeah. How long, how long has it been? Uh, probably a couple of years. I actually started listening to you guys a couple of years ago and grew Boa and, uh, husband material and Sean.
I think I'm [00:39:00] amazing. Look at that. So cool. That's awesome, man. Cool. Okay. Good stuff. Really good. So you've got some good pieces in place here. Like quitting porn is obviously the big one. Anytime someone's talking about, you know, uh, changes in their libido. Um, I would say, uh, again, I'm going to assume that your wife is in the same age range as you are.
Um, you, you can still have a great romantic life and a great sex life at this age. So. I don't really buy into the age thing and I'm not trying to deny the fact that the body changes and all that. But what I am saying is I'm the most interested in what are the things that we can control that, you know, that could help this.
So you talked about your, you know, working on like, um, improving your sense of intimacy, all that kind of stuff. I think that's really, really fantastic. Um, and I would say that, well, actually, maybe I'll ask one more question before I jump into that. What does that look like? What are you doing to, to, you know, work on intimacy and those kinds of things?
Um, dating, um, [00:40:00] sounds crazy after 30 years of marriage. Not at all, man. I'll let you go back to some of the things you said. Yeah. Um, as an older guy, you know, one of the things that, uh, tends to happen, particularly after you have children, is, is that you, you question, okay, is the connection in our marriage because of the children, or, you know, how do we rekindle that connection just between husband and wife, you know, back to, when we were in a dating relationship.
And so I've gone back to some of those things. Um, I have to tell you, sometimes I think my wife thinks I'm being a little corny, but that's okay. And how long are you guys empty nesters then? Is that what I'm gathering? Almost. We have an 18 year old son still at home. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Very cool. So I mean, number one, I think you're doing the right things like starting to date your wife again.
And Making that investment. I would say the biggest thing, and we talk about this, even when we're talking about porn addiction, is that the issues with porn addiction are rarely sexual in nature. Um, but we all kind of think [00:41:00] that because porn is so sexual, but the reality is there's, there's deeper layers to this.
And when we talk about building intimacy, that's like, that's the biggest encouragement I always give to guys who are in a sexless marriage is if you want to rekindle the fire, Um, you got to get to her heart, you know, and, and actually guys, guys need their hearts opened up as well. Like that, that affects our sex life way more than we care to admit.
So I love that you use that word intimacy and that'd be one of my big encouragements. Um, we'll give you, we'll give you access to our live porn free course and that that course has some material about, you know, digging into the inner life. I'm sure if you've been following us, you, you may have heard some of that stuff already anyway.
Um, but that like really focusing on the emotional connection, I think that would go a really long way. It's going to do two things. Number one and much more importantly than, than the sex part of it. Is it should start to just build connection at a, at a heart level, um, that, that'll be way more [00:42:00] fulfilling than any great night of sex that you guys could have.
And the natural byproduct of building emotional connection is usually the desire for sex starts to increase. So that to me, that's the best way that you solve this problem. Um, but you have to kind of play a bit of a long game, um, especially because. You know, her, the fluctuations in her libido could be a little bit more related to hormones and whatnot, depending on where she is in those stages, like menopausal.
So there's, there are some different dynamics there, but on your end, you can definitely, you could definitely start to, to like really focus on the intimacy part. And I think that would go a long way. John, what do you think? Yeah, Tim. Um, really, uh, always curious when guys use the words of entitlement, etc.
It's usually quite a level of awareness. Someone has to be able to say they might have some entitlement. Um, when you say that, where would you say you have some entitlement?
Well, I could take [00:43:00] it all the way back to, uh, when I was, you know, first got married and I thought, okay, you know, I'm struggled with sexual sin then. And I thought, well, you know that. That'll all be over as soon as I get married. I think we've heard this from every guy. Yes, all of them. Oh yeah, we've all been there.
Sex on demand, right? Yep. And, uh, and because I deserve this, right? And, uh, then there is the, um, you know, there's just that part that I think, uh, you know, this selfishness in us that, uh, hey, I want what I want when I want it. And, um, And, you know, I think also there's a notion when you get married, and maybe you guys have experienced this when you first get married, is that even though we know that our happiness and our joy needs to come from the Lord, we often look to our wives to make us happy.
And, um, So, you know, I'm having a bad day. Uh, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm, you know, in, in my mind, I must say it's necessarily right. But, um, [00:44:00] you know, I'm thinking, Hey, I need something. My wife can give it to me and I'm entitled. I deserve. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tim, thanks for sharing. So obviously there's many years of those experiences, let alone our sin nature and our flesh, but also programming and trauma that enters into places of, you know, Love and intimacy that hinders it and harms it.
So that's really important to consider what I see when you know, I've worked with many guys with erectile dysfunction. That was a niche of mine for quite a number of years there as it comes from my own story. Um, I've worked with many guys that are that are actually older than you, Tim. So I want to encourage you that I just got an update from a client actually just a week ago.
Uh, when I worked with him, I think he was 69 when I worked with him, uh, him and his wife hadn't had sex for 25 years. He had, uh, he had lived a homosexual lifestyle and continued to struggle with same sex attraction. And we were really honed in on the key traumas around the, the, the, the, the need for intimacy from a man.
When that was [00:45:00] healed, he started to see that he needs it from his wife. And there, there was such an opening there, but his wife was actually very resistant to, because she didn't trust him. She didn't feel safe with him. So their journey was really like him learning that, like, even the idea of dating your wife.
Most guys, the idea of dating your wife is like, let's go to a movie. Let's go for dinner. And it's not really like intimate and not saying you're doing that, but it's amazing how we can be so mechanical and our wives, you know, I've really seen libido be tied to safety and trust in the areas of. When I hear people have low libido, I'm not, I'm no medical guy, but I don't really care about their age.
When I hear people say low libido, I think of lack of trust, lack of safety, high stress, and like almost like a hyper vigilancy. And when that hyper vigilancy can calm down what we'd see in the nervous system, there's an opportunity for much more connection to happen. And like Sophia said, when connection happens naturally and it flows, Sex is the byproduct in marriage.
It just it really is. So I guess that would be my question for you, Tim, is how do you feel you are [00:46:00] like when you say dating your wife? That's awesome. I love that you guys are on that journey. Do you feel like there's some room to grow in the area of really like emotionally connecting in those dating environments?
Yeah, there is. I mean, I think creativity, one of the things that, um, I've learned it's been about, about, you know, it's amazing when you have your D-Day in this business, in this, this addiction world. Um, you learn more, I think in some ways about yourself than, uh, 'cause you're forced to Yeah. Than maybe in your, and one of the things that I learned about my wife.
Is to learn what drives her. Um, what are her dreams? What are her passions? And I've started praying for her passions. Um, I let her know that because, um, I think she wanted, you know, for so many years, you know, in the career, in my career and whatnot, you know, she was all about praying for me, [00:47:00] but. Uh, now I've come back in.
Uh, it's been a tremendous result when I told her, Hey, I'm really praying for your volunteer work in this area, or What's really what you're passionate. Mm, that's cool man. Um, I'll tell you that you know what I said about the ED and some of the other issues and, you know, and I, 'cause I think other guys experience this too.
Um, you know, sometimes antidepressants can play a role. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, and, um, uh, Uh, so, so that sometimes I, I think, while I, I, my goal, and, and I'm not saying that, if God can do what he wants to do, and I think that, uh, clearly I've seen that, you know, in both our sexual relationships, but, I think, I'm adjusting my thinking somewhere and I'm my, um, I don't want to say settled, but, but I'm, I'm happy [00:48:00] to have increased intimacy and if that leads to, you know, that a more robust sex life, that's great too.
Uh, the connection is what I really, is what I really desire. And that's taken me a long time to be able to come to say that it's amazing, Tim. Well, it sounds like, yeah, you guys are definitely in the right direction on some, uh, some cylinders there. Some of them are firing. One of the steps that's been a catalyst, it's kind of a two part lesson in what I would call the creating a sexual template, really helping couples learn to talk about the things that actually affect sex life.
It was the catalyst to my wife and I getting over my erectile dysfunction. A lot of the challenges I face with, you know, I felt unsafe with a safe person. It was rooted in my mother wound. Um, so there's other elements of the healing there, but one of the best steps is actually, you know, you guys would separately do this.
You guys would write down all the things. All the thoughts and feelings that are in the way from you feeling totally safe. To be yourself in [00:49:00] the bedroom, to fail in the bedroom, to not orgasm in the bedroom, to go soft in the bedroom. Like what are all the things or the lies, the expectations about yourself and about her and about sex in general, she would do that.
You would do that. You guys come together, create a very safe environment where you share all of those without no defending, no justification. It's just a place of sharing openly. And then the second part of that is one by one, you share a lie, openly. She shares what's true. She shares a lie. You share what's true and it begins to create this safety that is not just assuming all like my wife safe.
She loves me. You're hearing it right from her mouth. She's hearing it right from your mouth. There's something that that does to a man. Like if you struggle with E. D. You could imagine. I'm sure you're pursuing her sexually less just naturally. The fear of going soft is quite common. And then that would, you know, in, in, in many ways, yeah.
affect her emotionally and sexually, which could lower libido. So you can see there could be a lot of ties here in the regards to you not pursuing her the way that she wants to be [00:50:00] pursued because ed is a struggle. Ed is very often rooted in a lot of the psychological elements of fears and feeling insecure and inadequate.
So there's such a great opportunity here for you guys to just fully know each other. And to, to fully love each other, you have to fully know each other.
Yeah. That's a wise counsel. Yeah. Yeah. I failed a lot. Yeah. And I, I, I mean, uh, the only thing I would add here is, um, intimacy is a really broad subject and, uh, I was just looking at our schedule. We actually just dropped an interview today with Tony DeLorenzo. He and his wife, Elisa, have one extraordinary marriage and a book called the six, uh, What is it?
The six types of intimacy? Something like that. Yeah. Six pillars. Six pillars. Yeah. And they talk about financial intimacy and recreational intimacy and stuff like that. Um, so some resources like that might give you some other ideas as well on what it looks like to cultivate intimacy. But I do want to echo what Sean said.
By all accounts, you're crushing it, man. Like, [00:51:00] you know, you've been free of porn for a couple of years. Um, it sounds like you've really answered the call to, Connection with your wife over, you know, getting your sexual needs met. Um, or, you know, I don't like that language, but you know what I mean? Um, I think you're, you're going about this the right way and the right things are in place.
And, uh, I, I think something like, um, like something that could be helpful and it depends on where your wife is at. But, um, I know. One extraordinary marriage is just an example, but they do like they'll do retreats or they do. They actually do couples cruises. Um, and you guys might be, you might be due for something like that as well, where you, yes, you're going to continue to do your work on your own.
That is a gradual process. But I do think there's something to be said about. Doing these getaways and injecting and it's not that a getaway fixes it. It's just that you come back and your baseline might have been here before and now your baseline's here and you continue to do the work. Um, and something like that could go a long way.
So hopefully that gives you some ideas, man. I think I think you're going in the right direction here and I don't think you're too far away from. [00:52:00] Having a really robust sex life. Um, you know, just the way God's designed us to have it. Thank you. I listen to you guys a lot. Oh, that's awesome. Appreciate everything.
Yeah. It's so good. So good to meet you, man. And we will, uh, again, like I said, if you've listened a lot, you might already be familiar with some of the concepts in that, uh, that course, but we'll, I'll make sure Oscar gives it over to you anyway. And we'll get you set up there. And in the meantime, God bless you.
And thanks so much for the support, Tim. You too, Sophia. Thank you. God bless. All right, Tim. See you then. Great. So, hey, thanks guys so much for listening today. If you like the show, make sure you rate, review, share this, especially if, you know, these questions are really powerful questions. If you know somebody who's going through this, they might really benefit from what we talked about today.
In the meantime, thank you guys so much for listening to have an amazing day. We'll talk soon. [00:53:00] [00:54:00]
