805 - Q and A with Sathiya, Shawn, & Oskar
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[00:00:00] [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] [00:00:25] [00:00:30] Hey, hey, what's up my man? It's Lathea Sam here. Welcome to Unleash the Man Within. [00:00:35] Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I hope you're having a fantastic day. It's another great time to [00:00:40] have coach Sean here. Uh, we're going to go through some questions a little bit later on. It's going to [00:00:45] be lots of fun.
[00:00:46] Sean, welcome back, man. Nice to see you. Yeah. Great to be here, man. [00:00:50] It's always a privileged, uh, You know, being in being the coach so [00:00:55] much of a one on one coaching. It's so great to be able to kind of just share the message to more guys. I'm [00:01:00] grateful. Yeah. All right. So just because you had a good [00:01:05] childhood.
[00:01:05] doesn't mean you have trauma that you don't need to process or things [00:01:10] that you don't need to work through. This is something that we hear a lot of clients say, you [00:01:15] know, uh, Oh, actually, you know, I had a pretty good childhood. Mom was pretty good. Dad [00:01:20] was pretty good. They provided for me. They were always there for me, dah, dah, dah, dah.
[00:01:24] And then you [00:01:25] start to dive in a little bit deeper and you realize, uh, how good was this childhood really? [00:01:30] Or. Or maybe it was actually pretty good, but there's still, you know, [00:01:35] pieces that haven't been mended. There's still pain points and trauma and triggers. Sean, I [00:01:40] imagine you probably see this all the time with the clients you work with.
[00:01:42] Um, how often do you think someone tells you [00:01:45] I had a good childhood? Yeah, that's a [00:01:50] that language comes up enough. I would say it's kind of this balance between I had a [00:01:55] good childhood or I really couldn't imagine there's anything from my childhood. So maybe they're not saying it [00:02:00] was good, but they're also not saying that there could probably there probably isn't anything there.
[00:02:04] So there's just a [00:02:05] lot of, I don't want to even say denial. I think there's just a lot of ignorance. And I see that word with sensitivity because [00:02:10] that word Truly just means I being uninformed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:02:15] I mean, I was this guy, you know, I was, I don't know if it was between being a pastor's kid or [00:02:20] Indian culture.
[00:02:20] Like you kind of just have these unspoken rules, which is don't talk bad about your parents. [00:02:25] And, uh, you know, when, when we did start to go here and, you know, [00:02:30] I'm thinking one program I did and some therapy sessions and whatnot, it was like, [00:02:35] I was really uncomfortable. I didn't even know if I was allowed to say the stuff I was saying, you know, cause I had never, [00:02:40] I'd never done that before.
[00:02:41] And yeah, there's, I, I just, [00:02:45] I would still be addicted to porn today if I wasn't willing to confront the [00:02:50] wounds from, you know, my parents when I was younger and some of their shortcomings. And my [00:02:55] parents were amazing, you know, like I still stand by it. It's just, there were, there were things that needed to be addressed.[00:03:00]
[00:03:00] I, I remember we were, uh, this was when I was in ministry school and we went on a trip to, uh, [00:03:05] So we were in Ireland for three weeks. It was, it was phenomenal. Actually, it was a really good [00:03:10] trip. And the, the, the trip involved [00:03:15] us doing some preaching at this fairly large church, they were a church of, I don't know, [00:03:20] 2000, 2, 500, something like that.
[00:03:21] And so one of the guys on our team did a talk on forgiveness [00:03:25] and talked about his own story of, you know, forgiving his, his father. I think it was in [00:03:30] particular, but. The real encouragement from the sermon was like, Hey, you know, [00:03:35] sometimes we need to forgive people that have hurt us. And sometimes those people are our parents.
[00:03:38] And the [00:03:40] pastor came up to me and we had developed a good relationship over the few weeks. And he said, [00:03:45] um, I could never, I, I could never forgive my father [00:03:50] because I don't have anything to forgive him for. He said something like that. You know, this is like a late [00:03:55] fifties, early sixties, something year old man.
[00:03:57] And, um, yeah, you know, and [00:04:00] he, you could tell he, he definitely had his demons, you know, like life was not [00:04:05] perfect for him. And he, he had some things going against him. And I have to imagine [00:04:10] some of that probably stemmed from. Parent childhood dynamics when he was younger, that he would [00:04:15] just never get to address in the name of having a good childhood and, you know, the [00:04:20] parents did everything they needed to do or, or, yeah, those unspoken rules of I could never speak badly about my [00:04:25] parents.
[00:04:25] So this, this really can hold people back from recovery and [00:04:30] getting the results they want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The 2 things that are really important to [00:04:35] consider for all people, like my, my, my story is very different. Like mom with depression, [00:04:40] like scary stuff, saw my dad with porn quite early on. So [00:04:45] lots of different elements there where it's like, yeah, I did not have a good childhood in so many ways.
[00:04:49] And [00:04:50] in many ways, I actually did, but I'm able to see the darkness because it was [00:04:55] very evident. But the thing that I always tell guys is just because we're naming the areas of [00:05:00] faults or error. Doesn't dismiss all the things they did. Well, it's very [00:05:05] easy for guys to say, Oh, like, how could I say anything bad about them [00:05:10] with like, well, because they're broken, sinful people, first of all, and second of all, [00:05:15] saying one bad thing about a person doesn't take away the 10 good things about them.
[00:05:19] It's really [00:05:20] helpful. I think that's really helpful place to start with guys. And then the second thing that is [00:05:25] really important to consider is that. Unforgiveness is really held in the flesh and the [00:05:30] flesh wants things that it didn't get, you know, unforgiveness is all about being owed something. And [00:05:35] as Christians, it's like, Oh, like I could never be, feel like they owe me something.
[00:05:38] I'm a Christian, but you [00:05:40] have flesh and you have a sin nature. So it's really important to consider where did your parents just miss the [00:05:45] mark in some ways that, You wanted like my dad never taught me how to shave. You never taught me how to do [00:05:50] an oil change. Like I needed to forgive him for that stuff.
[00:05:52] That's not like quote unquote traumatic stuff, but [00:05:55] it led to me feeling less than as a man, I felt like, uh, I had this dirty [00:06:00] mustache as a teenager that no one ever taught me how to shave off. And I felt really embarrassed about myself. And I, That's [00:06:05] my dad's fault. Yeah. Yeah. And, and like you said, it's, [00:06:10] um, nobody's perfect.
[00:06:11] Like we kind of know that even like through a gospel centric lens, [00:06:15] it's like, that's the whole premise is we're all falling short, you know? And [00:06:20] that's a really beautiful thing. It's actually super liberating to be able to say, yeah, this person falls short [00:06:25] and them having shortcomings doesn't make them a terrible person [00:06:30] necessarily, and it doesn't, it doesn't.
[00:06:31] Discount all the great things they've done. It's just [00:06:35] accuracy. It's accuracy reporting. And I think without without that, um, [00:06:40] like, yeah, I'm thinking of clients I've worked with over the years when [00:06:45] they are not willing to go there, or they're willing to dip their toes in, but they're not really willing to fully [00:06:50] embrace.
[00:06:50] This part of the process, their results are always limited. [00:06:55] Usually not, not in the intensity of the outcome, but the [00:07:00] longevity. So they'll still achieve sobriety. But then if you follow them a year or two years [00:07:05] later, those people are much more likely to have backslidden or to [00:07:10] maybe just not, not have fully crossed the finish line as it were.
[00:07:12] Yeah, the [00:07:15] body keeps the score like you're saying like it's it's stored in the flesh and you know [00:07:20] unforgiveness and Yeah, like bitterness and resentment and [00:07:25] even just some of the wounding that takes place Maybe you're not aware of it enough to even be bitter [00:07:30] about it But if the wounding's there that affects you at a soul level as well And if your soul [00:07:35] doesn't heal Then you will not experience freedom in life.
[00:07:38] Maybe you'll be lucky to get to [00:07:40] sobriety, but definitely not freedom. Yeah. Yeah. And, and here's the main [00:07:45] kicker is that it's often the things that didn't happen that affect you the [00:07:50] most. And you know, it's like how do you go back and remember something that didn't happen, right? That's a very challenging thing [00:07:55] to do.
[00:07:55] So what I encourage you guys to think about is, you know, when dad worked a lot, what did you miss out on? [00:08:00] You guys got your parents got divorced. What did you what did you miss out on from having two [00:08:05] parents and the very idea of, you know, like, my dad put food on the table and we [00:08:10] had a house like, yeah, I think I might have said this on a podcast and another.
[00:08:13] It's like, that's what adults do. That's not what [00:08:15] parents are supposed to do. Like, parents is a different role than adult, like, adults buy food [00:08:20] and, you know, Buy homes and have cars. Like, don't tell me that means a good childhood. It's like, Oh, I was [00:08:25] out in the backyard driving motorcycles and playing with my dog all the time.
[00:08:28] I'm like, that sounds [00:08:30] lonely. Have you ever thought about that? Like your parents aren't in that picture. [00:08:35] Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. It's, it's so true. That that's a, it's a helpful [00:08:40] reframe. Cause I think, I think that's where people go when we start talking about childhood is it's like nothing [00:08:45] bad happened to me per se.
[00:08:46] But you're right. Sometimes it's more about what didn't happen for [00:08:50] you. And that was my processing. It was like, actually, when my parents were around, it was amazing. Like [00:08:55] lots of positive interactions. It was more about the things they didn't do, [00:09:00] uh, that were, that were really devastating for me and really affected my, my porn use.
[00:09:04] It [00:09:05] drove a lot of my consumption. So, um, yeah, yeah. It's very insightful. [00:09:10] Yeah, so I think that idea of like good childhood is also, you [00:09:15] know, it's kind of like right now we're breathing air that we can't see. You know, we know that there's air [00:09:20] around us, but we don't really know that. So you only have your childhood to compare to.
[00:09:24] And [00:09:25] typical people do is they compare to worse childhoods and they say that mine was pretty good. [00:09:30] And that's just unhelpful because we're called to you. Set our eyes on Jesus [00:09:35] and compare to Jesus, but we don't do that very often with our own struggles. We compare to people that have a way worse and [00:09:40] say, I have it pretty good.
[00:09:41] I shouldn't be complaining. I really have nothing to worry about. It's like, [00:09:45] that's unhelpful, man. Like our, our model is Jesus Christ and our families are [00:09:50] not perfect. So we need to understand that there is going to be trauma, unmet needs and unhealthy [00:09:55] programming. Also historically. Generations have been very unemotional, [00:10:00] very performance driven, and the man has worked way more than 40 hours [00:10:05] when you see unhealthy dynamics in a marriage.
[00:10:07] Yeah, yeah, the standard [00:10:10] thing is really important, like, especially as believers, I think we have to make sure that [00:10:15] we are always keeping Jesus as the model and the thing that we compare to because it is very [00:10:20] easy to compare laterally. And it's just unhelpful. I remember [00:10:25] like probably first year of marriage.
[00:10:27] Um, Shaloma was doing something that [00:10:30] was really irritating me. And I was like, why can't you just do it this way? And this way [00:10:35] was my way, you know? And I remember, um, the Lord just challenging me, [00:10:40] being like, Sophia, are you more interested in your wife? More like you or more like [00:10:45] me. And I was like, Oh, uh, well, well, uh, you know, when you put it [00:10:50] that way, I guess I'm, I don't think I'm taking the right approach here, you know?
[00:10:53] Um, but that's been [00:10:55] really helpful for me. Like when we have experienced those differences or [00:11:00] it's frustrating, you know, why are you doing things this way or whatever, and just realizing actually my job is not to [00:11:05] make her more like me. That's a. That's a really miserable place for both of us. One of [00:11:10] me is plenty in the relationship, you know.
[00:11:12] Uh, we don't need two of us for sure. It's much more [00:11:15] important we become like Christ and keep him as the standard. So I, I like the way you put that. I think it's [00:11:20] really important. Yeah, yeah. I think the other element here in, and I've seen it very [00:11:25] consistent. It was part of my story too, is I think we often jump to our main issue [00:11:30] being with the parent of the same gender.
[00:11:32] Sure. Like I really thought it was [00:11:35] my dad. That was the main problem for me. It ended up being my mom, uh, Helena for a long [00:11:40] time, thought it was mostly her mom. Now she's seeing that it was her dad. And it's actually really interesting how that dynamics I [00:11:45] work with guys. Obviously I don't have the biggest viewpoint, but, um, [00:11:50] seeing how Helena has worked with certain women as well.
[00:11:51] It's, it's quite interesting how there's, I wouldn't say [00:11:55] there's evidence or research to prove that, but it's slightly anecdotal to see that. [00:12:00] That's something to consider. And, you know, for a lot of guys, right? Like I even talked about it [00:12:05] before. I can't remember where I said it, but you know, you might not even know if you were breastfed or bottle fed [00:12:10] as a newborn and that can affect your attachment.
[00:12:12] Hmm. Right. [00:12:15] Yeah. Huh. That's a really good point. Yeah. You missed the [00:12:20] very elements of nurture. Like if the doctor ripped you off your mom, first minute you were born, [00:12:25] you're going to miss out on attachment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very true. Yeah, that's something I [00:12:30] didn't realize how novel that was in our society because, um, we like [00:12:35] contended with the doctors when Judah was born because, um, there's meconium [00:12:40] in the, in the amniotic sack.
[00:12:41] And so they wanted to check his vitals and obviously that's [00:12:45] necessary. But they did say if he's crying when he comes out, like mom and baby can be there [00:12:50] right away and it's fine because they don't need to try to get stuff out of his breathing ways and [00:12:55] he was crying, which was like the best sound in the world for us.
[00:12:58] And, [00:13:00] um, so we got him on onto mom and it was really special. And then, [00:13:05] like, the nurses were like, kind of hustling us a little bit, like, okay, come on, like, we still need to do all his vitals. [00:13:10] And we're like. Yeah, I think you guys can just wait for a little bit. You know, like we're not rushing this because it's [00:13:15] so it's like well researched now, right?
[00:13:16] How how pivotal those moments are. And 20 [00:13:20] years ago, they they I think they knew it was like important. I don't think they realize the [00:13:25] significance of it. And there's still a video of me holding Judah and my shirts off, you know, it's [00:13:30] like skin to skin with him, probably within the first couple of hours he was born.
[00:13:33] And that was like [00:13:35] so special, like just so, so incredible and obviously great for the bonding as well. [00:13:40] Yeah. Yeah. And this is where we certainly aren't blaming our parents. It's [00:13:45] like the nurse ripped me when I was a baby off my mom's breast and [00:13:50] washed me in a bath and fed me with a bottle. Yeah, you're not blaming your parents for [00:13:55] that, but it's affecting the way you are attaching to people today.
[00:13:59] Yeah, [00:14:00] and that's the problem here. Is this a lot of the things that are causing you? The root [00:14:05] problems are things that didn't happen or you don't have memories of [00:14:10] and and that's a lot of the work that I do with guys is to let the Holy Spirit bring up things that you've never [00:14:15] considered or maybe you've had flashes in your mind of, but you push them away because it just seems too.[00:14:20]
[00:14:20] That's too scary. There's no way that happened. And, and [00:14:25] those things happen. It's very calm. Memory is fat. I'm switching gears a bit now, but memory is so [00:14:30] fascinating. Like I've been, I keep talking about this podcast series, [00:14:35] uh, with Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Matt Walker. Matt Walker's like the sleep guy and [00:14:40] they're doing a six part series.
[00:14:42] And each part is like two and a half hours long. It's like very, [00:14:45] very dense podcast material. And they're both. You know, very brilliant and very well [00:14:50] spoken. So learning a lot, but they, they were talking about memory and it's really [00:14:55] poorly understood actually. Like why, why are some things remembered? Like we know [00:15:00] emotion plays a huge role in, in whether or not memory gets stored in a way that's actually, uh, like [00:15:05] recall memory where you don't need someone to prompt you, but you can actually just pull it up.
[00:15:09] [00:15:10] Um, and. Yeah, I'm like with clients a lot. We see this where we [00:15:15] even talked about this, right? It's like, oh, they have no memories from childhood. Right. Cause they were [00:15:20] probably shut off. They were probably numb and major, the important things were happening and [00:15:25] there wasn't the emotion to actually crystallize that memory in a way that it was still accessible or, or [00:15:30] core in that way.
[00:15:31] Um, so it's always very interesting, but, um, but [00:15:35] the, the link with this podcast was talking about sleep. Cause we know. [00:15:40] That the brain somehow is, is reprocessing things and [00:15:45] properly organizing memories in our, in our bodies. Right. And it really got me thinking because he was, [00:15:50] he was talking about where they're at now is about how people who don't sleep well.[00:15:55]
[00:15:55] Are more prone to neurodivergent issues, which is like ADHD and that kind of stuff. [00:16:00] Um, but then even, you know, PTSD and some of these things, like the [00:16:05] link with sleep is very, very strong and it did get me thinking, man, how many people that struggle with porn [00:16:10] addiction, um, have poor sleep as well? Like what's the link there?
[00:16:14] Cause I [00:16:15] have to imagine it's pretty high. And then it's actually [00:16:20] furthered by porn viewership because we know the most popular time to view porn is [00:16:25] between 10 o'clock and midnight. And so people are exposing themselves to screens and the [00:16:30] high dopamine rushes. So people. They get their head. They stay up later than they should.
[00:16:34] Their [00:16:35] sleep, call it sleep qualities affected. Um, which is a whole nother thing, right? Because, [00:16:40] um, you can fall asleep and sleep through the night. It doesn't mean you had quality sleep, like your [00:16:45] body actually processed and restored and replenished. So it's very [00:16:50] interesting. Have you ever dug dug into that?
[00:16:51] Like when you were running secret habit or anything like that? Do you know? Is there, is there a link between [00:16:55] porn addiction and sleep? Okay. Well, certainly, you know, high, high [00:17:00] 90 percent of guys that I work with, you know, one of their internal triggers is tiredness and. You know, you [00:17:05] really hear their routines of life.
[00:17:06] And I actually think there's a lot of guys that there's this [00:17:10] dynamic of, they didn't feel like they did enough during the day, you know, root root trauma, you know, [00:17:15] failure, um, or, or they're really regretting waking up tomorrow. And people really live in [00:17:20] that cycle a lot. Um, But I have actually looked into this, uh, the sleep [00:17:25] doctor before, and it's quite fascinating stuff, and I can't remember if it was him who said it, and I know [00:17:30] he has the chronotypes and whatnot, but, uh, one of the things that it really drew me to understand, [00:17:35] and I don't know if this was from the Lord, or if I got it from somewhere, but the differentiation of rest and [00:17:40] sleep.
[00:17:41] Like, man, there's so many people that sleep eight hours a night and they don't feel [00:17:45] rested. And it's because they lack purpose in life. They're, they're dealing with fears that they don't know how to [00:17:50] overcome. They're, they're, they're comparing their life to other people, right? So you can sleep these amount of [00:17:55] hours, but like, are you rested?
[00:17:56] 'cause rest comes from the Lord. Rest comes from contentment. Rest comes [00:18:00] from knowing who you are and whose you are. And I think that's really, really important. [00:18:05] Yeah, very overlooked. Um, both of those things you mentioned the [00:18:10] chronotypes. Um, but also that restlessness. Um, I'm working with a naturopathic [00:18:15] doctor right now and he tested my cortisol and, um, [00:18:20] basically, you know, when you wake up in the morning, you're supposed to have like a full tank of cortisol and it's like, [00:18:25] Peak release and then slowly the release tapers off throughout the day so that you're nice and [00:18:30] tired when you go to bed.
[00:18:31] So I'm nice and tired when I go to bed, my cortisol levels are like low, but [00:18:35] when I wake up, I have like nothing. He said like, you have like 20 percent of cortisol that you should have. [00:18:40] And then by noon it starts to like go up. So I basically have like a rollercoaster kind of [00:18:45] cortisol that tapers off. And he's like, dude, you must be all exhausted in the mornings.
[00:18:48] And I'm like, [00:18:50] yeah, I do. And it wasn't always like this, but it's exactly what you said. Like. [00:18:55] Four years ago, maybe when I was starting this company, I was working full time. Shaloma was [00:19:00] bedridden. Like I was just inundated with so much stress on my body and I [00:19:05] was pushing past a lot of the signals. I, I mean, not all of them.
[00:19:09] I was, [00:19:10] it makes it me sound like I was like super overdriven and I don't think that was true. But [00:19:15] I never settled enough. And I remember there were some days where it's like, okay, I'm done my work. [00:19:20] I closed the laptop. I brushed my teeth and I'm in bed, you know, and there's like no room there for [00:19:25] like the body to actually settle down, um, until I get into like really good sleep.[00:19:30]
[00:19:30] Um, and I'm kind of paying for it now. So anyways, I'm glad I'm seeing this guy. He's going to get me back on track, [00:19:35] but this is a real thing, man. And once you start to lose sleep quality, like [00:19:40] so many things in your life can start to deteriorate from immunofunction. To your gut [00:19:45] health, your hormones, like other hormones other than cortisol.
[00:19:48] Um, [00:19:50] pretty much the whole gamut. Dude, that's wild. That's uh, [00:19:55] yeah, obviously no of these things. I don't know if I've met anybody that's done that sort of [00:20:00] testing before. So very, very, uh, fascinated to hear that, man. I'm really glad to [00:20:05] be a good testimony for that. It's so helpful actually. Like it explained a [00:20:10] lot.
[00:20:10] And so he measured a bunch of hormone levels and then. He did like a food [00:20:15] sensitivity test as well. So what he said is that, um, yeah, if you're [00:20:20] eating food that you think is like relatively okay, but you're actually like having a [00:20:25] strong reaction to it, it can really deplete your health. And there's a bunch of things.
[00:20:28] I was like, devastated, like [00:20:30] eggs, milk, rice. He's like, these are all things that are actually. Causing tons of inflammation in [00:20:35] your body. And I eat those things in spades every single day. So, um, [00:20:40] the good news is that it's not like, Hey, you're, you're messed up and you can't eat this stuff ever again.[00:20:45]
[00:20:45] Basically they have you do a cleanse for 21 days. Cause I guess your gut lining replaces itself every three [00:20:50] weeks. So he said for 21 days, you can only eat like. Basically food that doesn't cause [00:20:55] inflammation. And there's like a long list, but it's all like legumes and fruits and [00:21:00] quinoa and then, and then meat, I can do meat really well.
[00:21:03] So I have to do that for three weeks. And then he said, you [00:21:05] can start to reintroduce foods and see how the gut responds. So, yeah, fascinating, [00:21:10] man. Yeah. I, yeah, I always appreciate information like that. And it just [00:21:15] really helps us realize that some of the things that we think we're doing pretty good. Like I had a pretty good [00:21:20] childhood.
[00:21:20] We really missed the mark when we don't get professional perspective of [00:21:25] people that have studied the real realities of what's going on. So I think that's a really [00:21:30] great point of like, you know, you could be healthy and fit and you know, a lot of things are firing, but [00:21:35] some areas aren't. And you know, there's, there's reasons for that.
[00:21:38] Yeah, [00:21:40] exactly. And it, and it also speaks to the individuality. Like that's the one thing that [00:21:45] I really appreciated about just the improvements we've made to our system coaching guys the [00:21:50] last year or so is like, there's a much more tailored component because I think you [00:21:55] need that. You know, whether we're talking about the brain.
[00:21:57] The body relationships, [00:22:00] there's always going to be principles that are universally applicable, but ultimately like you have [00:22:05] to know your own body, you have to know your own self and it's in knowing thyself that [00:22:10] you really gain freedom because something that you do might not work for other people. [00:22:15] But if you know that, as long as I get my.
[00:22:17] 10 minutes of journaling every day or my [00:22:20] walk outside or whatever it is. And that just helps me clear my mind or does all the triggers like that's [00:22:25] fantastic, you know, and the better, you know, yourself, um, yeah, the, the better you'll live in [00:22:30] life in general. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. [00:22:35] All right. Let's do it. Let's pop into some questions here.
[00:22:39] [00:22:40] Okay. Question is from Steve from Hawaii. I've recognized that [00:22:45] I have emotionally tied two situations together that hurt me individually, but they really hurt [00:22:50] me together. I have something of what I'd call a calling wound in that I was in a position [00:22:55] of leadership in my church when a ton of conflict came up and I was involved in dealing with it.[00:23:00]
[00:23:00] At the same time, I had a relationship wound from a breakup. The story I tell [00:23:05] myself was, if I could get through this church conflict, I could resign my position and get [00:23:10] back together with her. Nothing really panned out the way I hoped, but the conflict kind of [00:23:15] sputtered before we could reach what I thought was a true reconciliation and healing, [00:23:20] and the girl started dating someone else.
[00:23:22] I know now it wasn't a good system for dealing with my [00:23:25] twin traumas, but the reality is they're still kind of glued together in my head. What are [00:23:30] some ways you have helped guys to have multiple intersecting wounds?
[00:23:33] Uh, thanks for the question, [00:23:35] Steve. I think that's, uh, it's quite an interesting situation. Um, we were just [00:23:40] talking a little bit about how emotion can really affect memory. And it sounds to me like [00:23:45] you went through a season here where the emotions were flying high and now. Uh, [00:23:50] use an interesting word that, that they're kind of glued together.
[00:23:53] So this is a really good example of [00:23:55] that. So a couple of things. Um, number one, whether the, [00:24:00] whether the wounds are glued or not, doesn't matter [00:24:05] a ton, I, I, I think when you're saying that, if I'm hearing you right, it's probably that, [00:24:10] you know, you have one incident and you can't think about one without thinking about the other.[00:24:15]
[00:24:16] And if that's the case, that, um, that does make sense. [00:24:20] But I would say it's probably more helpful to deal with them individually, [00:24:25] just because the nature of these situations and the woundings are [00:24:30] actually quite different. Um, and they all probably come to the same root [00:24:35] issues or core issues. But, you know, I'm thinking about the people you would need to forgive [00:24:40] and, Just some of the dynamics that would have been at play.
[00:24:42] There's, there's a difference here. So that would be my, my main [00:24:45] recommendation. Um, like if I were coaching you, I would ask you, okay, between the [00:24:50] calling wound and the relationship wound, which one feels more accessible to you? [00:24:55] Um, not even which one's more impactful. Cause we'll get to both, but which one's more accessible.
[00:24:59] [00:25:00] What's the one that's like, it's right there. As soon as I think about it, or as soon as I get prompted about it, you [00:25:05] know, I'm right there. That's the one we would start with. Um, cause we just, we want to get [00:25:10] momentum going here. Uh, we'd work through that. And once that one feels like, okay, we've, we've touched on [00:25:15] it, we've tackled it, um, then I would, I would be moving over to the other one.
[00:25:19] Um, [00:25:20] I'm, I'm reminded of a situation in my own life where, you know, I went through a breakup, I had [00:25:25] been cheated on. The girl started dating my best friend. And so I had the betrayal with my best [00:25:30] friend. I had the hurt from the relationship and from the breakup. Um, And [00:25:35] those things were definitely glued together in my head for a season.
[00:25:38] Um, and I couldn't think [00:25:40] about one without the other. Eventually it was actually pretty easy for me to eventually forgive my friend. Their [00:25:45] relationship also kind of fizzled out. Um, and so, you know, he and [00:25:50] I were able to reconcile. Um, but then working, working through things with her and that [00:25:55] breakup, that took years, you know, that took a lot longer.
[00:25:57] So it kind of just depends on, [00:26:00] um, the nature of it, what's impacted you and whatever. But I would say, you know, start with [00:26:05] one and then move your way through the other. And the other thing I'll actually, you know what, I do want to comment on [00:26:10] something else, but I'll pass it over to Sean first. Yeah, yeah, there's obviously a [00:26:15] lot in here that I'd love to know more about.
[00:26:17] But from what I'm seeing [00:26:20] is there's conflict at work. But I [00:26:25] guess the question that I would have is like, what was the initiator of the breakup between you and this [00:26:30] girl? A lot of times, and there's, you know, Conflict in a workspace, and it's not really dealt [00:26:35] with super. Well, emotionally, maybe also in the workspace.
[00:26:38] Usually that goes [00:26:40] into our relationships as well. So I'd be curious to know a little bit more about how do you handle [00:26:45] conflict? Is there a people pleasing nature and avoidance of conflict? Is conflict scary? [00:26:50] Does it make you sputter emotionally? Those would be things to really consider and wonder how was conflict [00:26:55] dealt with growing up?
[00:26:56] Did you have to care for other people and become a people pleaser? Lots to [00:27:00] consider there with the relational dynamic. It's a very interesting mindset. Like I'm [00:27:05] going to get through this conflict, then I'll quit my job and then get back together with this [00:27:10] person. It's like, where would that mentality maybe come from as well?
[00:27:13] I'd really want to explore, [00:27:15] like, that's a, Kind of an odd thing to come up with, if you think about it, like maybe after the fact now you look [00:27:20] back, you're like that, yeah, I think you even said like, you know, this wasn't a good system. What made it seem like a good one in the [00:27:25] moment? Was there something there that was like I was taught to like [00:27:30] push through hard things and fix it later or I saw this with my dad or my [00:27:35] parents marriage or this happened with my sports team, whatever it could be like, it seems like there's definitely some [00:27:40] deeper roots here that would give us evidence as to why these things happened or challenging [00:27:45] or sputtered.
[00:27:46] That's where I would go there. Um, the other thing I would say. [00:27:50] And, and I use this language a lot with guys earlier in the coaching, uh, when we're understanding the power of [00:27:55] emotions is like, why were these so controlling and powerful [00:28:00] where, you know, the church conflict was kind of maybe to some degree controlling you rather than you were in a place of [00:28:05] being in control of your emotions and your thoughts and the challenges that erupted, you [00:28:10] know, in terms of the relational dynamic.
[00:28:11] Yeah. Like what, what happened there? Lots of reflection points, [00:28:15] but I think. Yeah. Overall, what I'm hearing more than anything is, is grief. I'm hearing loss [00:28:20] and, you know, you can call it a calling wound and a relationship wound. You know, it's just language, but [00:28:25] ultimately it sounds like you've gone through a lot of grief in these areas and grief has to do with loss.
[00:28:29] And when we [00:28:30] don't actually process loss from a place of grieving it, which is a [00:28:35] process in of itself, the idea of finding completion in the things that should have been said, could have been [00:28:40] said, could have been done, should have been done. Processing all of that with Jesus, receiving [00:28:45] forgiveness, walking through that process of allowing yourself to feel angry and feel sad.[00:28:50]
[00:28:50] There's, there's a lot of therapy just there. So again, so many angles that [00:28:55] would go on if we had a chance to work together on that stuff. But hopefully that gives you some good reflection points. [00:29:00] And, uh, Cynthia, I think you had one other point there. Yeah. The other point is.[00:29:05]
[00:29:07] I, I'd be curious to know if you [00:29:10] are more conflict avoidance or, um, like if you're the kind of person [00:29:15] who likes tackling conflict head on, the one thing that it does sound like is that there was like [00:29:20] maybe a little bit of escapism or survival when there was all that conflict going on, which [00:29:25] again, like that's a human response.
[00:29:27] However, people that are a bit more [00:29:30] conflict avoidant. can sometimes sit in their pain and their trauma [00:29:35] way longer than is necessary. Cause they'll, it'll be like, you know, I'm just [00:29:40] trying to figure out what the right way to go about this is, or it's like, I have multiple intersecting wounds and you [00:29:45] know, how do you handle something like that?
[00:29:46] It was when it's more complicated, but it's not actually more complicated. [00:29:50] The, I think the reality is you have to just start tackling it. And so that would be my big encouragement to you. Steve [00:29:55] is I wouldn't make this more complicated than it needs to be. Um, you, you have [00:30:00] some pain here. There's some things that have gone on that clearly are affecting you.
[00:30:04] And my [00:30:05] biggest encouragement, hopefully is something from what we said can be extracted into, you know, an [00:30:10] actionable item or, or two, you know, um, like, like Sean was talking about, the grief. You [00:30:15] know, like maybe you gotta go read a book, uh, read a book on grief or, or talk to a therapist or see a [00:30:20] professional.
[00:30:20] Um. I would, I would get the ball rolling here. I wouldn't spend too much time [00:30:25] contemplating at this point or trying to make sure you really understand all of it. It sounds like you might [00:30:30] be more of the personality type that just needs to take some action and get the ball rolling. And that'll probably be [00:30:35] more impactful than anything else.
[00:30:36] Next question is from Nick in Texas. My [00:30:40] question is simply over recovery. I know the lack of impulse control is a result of use. [00:30:45] Well, I am thankful to not struggle with pornography currently. I fear the lasting [00:30:50] impact of past use. What can a man do to restore brain health or [00:30:55] heal from past use mentally?
[00:30:57] How can we improve whatever in our body affects [00:31:00] impulse control? Nick, it's a great question, man. I'm seeing here as well that [00:31:05] you're married. Uh, so that's just helpful context. Um, and, uh, [00:31:10] great to hear that you're not struggling with pornography currently. So it sounds like there's two things. There's [00:31:15] sort of the fear of.
[00:31:17] Past use and how that might be impacting [00:31:20] you. And then also impulse control. Um, and those things are, [00:31:25] they could be linked, but I'm going to talk about them separately. Um, [00:31:30] so I would say with the, the lasting impacts of porn usage, [00:31:35] um, they vary. They're different from person to person. I don't know how you reach this [00:31:40] place where you're not struggling with.
[00:31:41] And that has a major impact on the answer here. [00:31:45] So if you have chosen more of the quick routes, that is White [00:31:50] knuckling and slapping on filters and, you know, the sort of willpower [00:31:55] approach where you're maybe not doing the deeper work. Um, what I would say is [00:32:00] that the lasting impacts could be significant because your brain will [00:32:05] change still from you not watching pornography for sure, but it won't [00:32:10] restore back to its optimal functionality.
[00:32:12] Without a process that actually [00:32:15] tackles the traumas and the belief systems and the [00:32:20] emotional dissonance and all those kinds of different things that we talk about. So I would, I would say, [00:32:25] um, the, the impacts of past use, you know, you will probably know [00:32:30] them. Um, you know, when people quit porn properly, uh, usually they know [00:32:35] it's clearing a brain fog.
[00:32:36] So just better cognition. They're more cohesive in [00:32:40] their thinking, um, or coherent rather. I think as well, you notice that the [00:32:45] relationship quality improves. People are more present. They're able to open up and share. They're also a [00:32:50] lot more empathetic and they're better listeners. Um, you know, spiritually, there's usually a rake, a [00:32:55] reignition there as well.
[00:32:56] So, you know, there's different things that we kind of look for to [00:33:00] indicate like, okay, There, there might still be some lasting impacts. You know, I would say [00:33:05] all these years later, I still do have some lasting impacts from, you know, the 15 years I was watching [00:33:10] porn. They're nominal. Um, and, and they play a small role.
[00:33:13] Um, the impulse [00:33:15] use can be linked to it for sure. So don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say those aren't connected because maybe you quit [00:33:20] pornography, but you're still impulsive with money. And you know, you binge on Amazon. Or, [00:33:25] um, or it's just like with smartphones and social media or, you know, whatever that impulse control might be for [00:33:30] you.
[00:33:30] Um, I would say as long as you're focusing more on the root issues, that's [00:33:35] the first place to start, um, because that can often bring back a lot of [00:33:40] impulse control. A lack of impulse control is very limbic. It's very, it's when you become very limbic [00:33:45] driven as in the more hind parts of your brain that can't really process [00:33:50] and think in that way.
[00:33:51] Cognitively, um, those, those parts of your [00:33:55] brain are very dominant when you are not controlling your impulses. And what happens when you actually [00:34:00] get to the roots of the issue is you become a lot more prefrontal cortex dominant. That's the part of your brain that [00:34:05] is making those decisions that can see the bigger picture.
[00:34:08] And it's not that your limbic [00:34:10] system shuts down. We need our limbic system. It's just that we're able to manage those impulses a [00:34:15] lot better. So that's an inherent byproduct, but then, you know, I, I was sharing it in a [00:34:20] previous episode about how I saw some pretty rigid guidelines for how I use my phone, [00:34:25] um, and all that kind of stuff.
[00:34:26] And that's not so much about like, I don't want to become impulsive because I might [00:34:30] relapse. That's just, I want my brain to be in a good state and I don't want to be distracted. So, [00:34:35] um, there's, there's a link between these, but additionally, I think some of the solutions might be separate and that's, that's [00:34:40] okay.
[00:34:41] Yeah, I think the, the language of, [00:34:45] like, lack of impulse control is a result of uses is interesting [00:34:50] because if we fixate on the lack of impulse control, we [00:34:55] do end up missing the bigger picture. Like, if you're stuck living in a overrided [00:35:00] and overrunning and overwhelmed nervous system, um, the focus shouldn't be on impulse control.
[00:35:04] It [00:35:05] should be on. Helping a nervous system. And really, what we're looking at is [00:35:10] getting back to places of calmness, getting back to places of connection. So when we think about [00:35:15] impulse control, we really get fixated on the temptation, the things that trigger us, [00:35:20] rather than what are those triggering inside of us.
[00:35:23] Like, that's really at the [00:35:25] heart of quote, unquote, impulse control is. Hey, like this thing, whatever is, if [00:35:30] it's the beach, or if it's more emotional where it's, uh, you know, I used to walk by the Michael Kors [00:35:35] store at the mall and get triggered because of the wealthy woman meant something to me. It was very attractive [00:35:40] and arousing.
[00:35:40] It's like, It's not the Michael Kors store. It's not the woman or something inside of [00:35:45] me that needs to be dealt with. So when we focus on the idea of impulse control is what leads to porn [00:35:50] use. I think it's missing the mark on the bigger picture. And it also, [00:35:55] um, it keeps us from having compassion for ourselves, where it's very rare that [00:36:00] people like are just giving into impulses cause they don't know how to control it or cause they [00:36:05] like it.
[00:36:05] They've learned to protect themselves from pain, and that's that idea of the root, right? Like, we [00:36:10] need to realize that when we go to things like comfort eating or pornography or binging Netflix, [00:36:15] we're not mature enough in our prefrontal cortex and the [00:36:20] makeup of our developmental brain to process these things.
[00:36:23] We need to develop a skill, [00:36:25] and I hope that brings you to a sadness that you might be between 36 and 50 years old [00:36:30] and have never been given a skill set that. So I think that really [00:36:35] breeds a lot of compassion for ourselves to look at what's the pain that I'm avoiding rather than trying to [00:36:40] control an impulse.
[00:36:41] Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, I think that's well said. The [00:36:45] reality is impulse control is something that every single [00:36:50] person on the planet has to deal with. Um, you know, like it's [00:36:55] not really specific to porn addiction. Porn addiction definitely exacerbates it. But [00:37:00] yeah, Sean, Sean is right. And um, yeah, I think I think that that will go go a [00:37:05] long way.
[00:37:05] Some of the stuff we're talking about here, um, and the last thing I'll say, and I try to say this as [00:37:10] much as I can on the show, your brain can change like, and it's fascinating how [00:37:15] quickly your brain can change. So don't don't be discouraged by. [00:37:20] lasting impacts. Like, I think sometimes we're, we're looking for things and then we see a hint of a [00:37:25] lasting impact and we're like, oh my gosh, this is so frustrating and whatever.
[00:37:28] Um, you know, like I said, for [00:37:30] me, I, I know there's remnants of it definitely from time to time, but on the whole, I, I love my [00:37:35] brain and what it's become. And I'm, I'm really amazed at how much it's changed and it's definitely not [00:37:40] perfect, but even if I didn't have the porn addiction, it wouldn't be perfect anyway.
[00:37:42] You know, there'd be things to work on. So, [00:37:45] um, I would make sure that your, your attention's in the right direction. It'll go A very, very long [00:37:50] way. So, Hey, thanks for the question, Nick. Thanks to all of you guys for listening and watching [00:37:55] today. Uh, we appreciate you. If you haven't checked out our book, the last [00:38:00] relapse, that's my guide for how to make a lasting recovery all the way from the beginning.[00:38:05]
[00:38:05] To the very end into a life of lasting freedom. You can get a free copy at the last [00:38:10] relapse book. com. That's my gift to all listeners of this show. I'd love for you to get your [00:38:15] hands on that. And it also comes with a free workbook. So, uh, you know, we're trying to make these [00:38:20] resources and things we're talking about as accessible as possible.
[00:38:22] This is the best guide you can get to [00:38:25] making a lasting recovery and it doesn't cost you a dime. The last relapse book. com. You can get your copy [00:38:30] today. In the meantime, God bless you guys. Thanks for listening. Have an amazing day. We'll talk [00:38:35] soon. [00:38:40] [00:38:45] [00:38:50] [00:38:55] [00:39:00] [00:39:05] [00:39:10] [00:39:15] [00:39:20] [00:39:25] [00:39:30] [00:39:35] [00:39:40] [00:39:45] [00:39:50]