793 - Q and A with Sathiya, Shawn, & Oskar
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Sathiya sam_1: [00:00:00] Hey, hey, what's up, everybody? It's a thea. Sam here. Welcome to unleash the man within got another fun Q and a episode for you guys. Really appreciate you listening, and we're going to answer some questions at the end. So if you do have questions, this is just a friendly reminder. Submit them. We would love to answer them.
In fact, we're going to start inviting people live on air to get coaching from us. It's going to be a lot of fun. And if you have something that you want some clarity on, or you need some help with, This is your chance to do it. No charge to you and you get to be part of the show, which is pretty cool. So the links in the show notes, go [00:01:00] ahead, submit your questions there.
And thanks to all of you who have done that so far. Okay, let's jump into it. Uh, I am a believer that, you know, without spiritual disciplines, people are missing out on a huge piece of recovery. And are dramatically reducing the chances of them actually being successful. Is that a fair statement? Do you think that's fair to say, Sean?
Shawn_1: Yes, definitely. Uh, there's a great guy on YouTube. Uh, apologetics guy speaks on campuses names. Cliff. I don't know his last name, but he was talking to, uh, yeah, incredible legend. He was talking to a group of people. He's like. We don't use the same logic in, in, in the faith. It's like in school, if you don't study, study, study, you will flunk, flunk, flunk.
And it was just so great. Cause everyone's like, yeah, that, that makes sense. It's like, why is that any different in our faith walk in our sanctification?
Sathiya sam_1: And you know, we were talking about this off air. Like we're getting a lot of questions from our clients about spiritual disciplines because I think everybody knows, you know, especially obviously assuming that [00:02:00] you are of faith. This is something that we all know we should be doing and I can't tell you how many people have in my life, family and friends who say like, yeah, I know I should be getting up early to do my devotions or I know I should be praying more or, you know, fill in the blank and they're just not doing it, you know, and the crazy thing is, is exactly what you said.
It's that people think like it's a luxury. We treat it like a luxury, like, oh, when I have time to do it. Um, but you know, with spiritual disciplines, if you don't, you don't just do it when you have time, you make time because it's a priority. And without it, your spirit dies, your spiritual life certainly starts to wane.
And I think for guys that are in recovery, you know, this is like mission critical. This is like so, so necessary and so vital because that's what, like, that's what connects you to God. You know, without that steady connection to God, you just heal way more slowly. You recover more slowly. Um, everything gets delayed by that.
So to me, this is like, maybe this [00:03:00] is the secret sauce. I don't know if there's secret sauce recovery, but if there was something, I have to feel like this would be a huge part of it. Cause without it, I just don't think the results are nearly as good.
Shawn_1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's been kind of a lot in some of the group calls lately. There was one guy in particular said, you know, there's six, uh, spiritual disciplines as a field lays out in the deep clean course, you know, which one is the most important or which ones are the most important? It's a great question.
But I just simply said, Hey, man, let me, let me, uh, redirect your mind. I said, yeah. Spiritual disciplines are done because God is good and we want to experience his goodness. If they're done to test God to see if he's good, they will always fizzle out.
Sathiya sam_1: right.
Shawn_1: It's like you can choose which one is how most helpful for you to get there To experience god's goodness and full and like to worship him But for me it could be a prayer walk for you.
It could be worship music It doesn't really matter specifically. We want to know the word of god very and you know We want to have that as our core But outside of that I think there's a lot of freedom of how we experience god as long as it's biblical
Sathiya sam_1: [00:04:00] Yeah. No 100 percent I thought I totally agree and even when I think about my own journey like you know from when I was eight I guess I was 18 or 19 when I really committed my life to Jesus So that's almost 15 years now and I've had different seasons, you know, some seasons. I was really big in a prayer I used to like wake up.
I set my alarm for 5 in the morning And I would pray and I would like pray till I was blue in the face. Usually it was like five 3535 and I'd go back to bed, you know, I was so tired. But to me, I just thought there was something like extra spiritual about waking up early in the morning and doing it. I was like, obviously totally misguided, but you know, but that was a season where I was really focused on prayer.
I've had seasons where I've done a lot of fasting, you know, 21 day fast and week long fast and three day fast. And not, not all of those are food related. Sometimes it was tech or it was. different stuff. Um, but I think the one thing I've identified, it's exactly what you, what you said to that client. It's like, you need to, you just have to identify like, what is going to help you the most to connect with God [00:05:00] and to step into that, that existing relationship.
Like it's not about earning something. It's not about which one's right or which one's better. The question is like in your relationship with God right now, which of these disciplines is going to help you the most? And I think, I think that answer will vary from time to time, but I really do agree with what you said.
I, I think, you know, there are three like pillars of it. It's like the word should always be mixed in. And if you go a season without reading the word, I think that's a problem. I think if you go a season without reading the word very much, I can understand that if your focus is on. Prayer or fasting or whatever.
Um, I think prayer should always be in the mix. You know, we're, we're instructed biblically to pray without seizing. You know what I mean? So there's no season. There's could be a season where you're really growing in it. And that's the emphasis. And I think worship is the other one. And I think worship is maybe a little bit like probably just one step removed where it's like, yeah, you know, if you're not the person who can throw on worship music and really get in, you know, I kind of get that.
I think that's, I think that's okay. But. [00:06:00] I do think like we there's different things that that are worship, right? It's not just music Um, and we worship god through our finances and everything else and I think as a spiritual discipline though Usually it does get reduced to like it's music or it's devoted time where i'm really offering things i'm putting things on the altar And yeah, you know, that's a lifestyle like that's again, something we're called to do every day.
But again, I think you're gonna have seasons where you're really focused on it. We should get into the other three as well. But, um, but yeah, that that would be, I think, the starting point, right? It's it's knowing that season and then figuring out what's going to be the best for you in the season you're in.
Shawn_1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's been so many seasons in the last two years where I've been much more dedicated to prayer. Like, uh, you know, getting up at five before Viola would wake up before we had Lydia and getting an hour prayer walk in, it's good for so many reasons. And it was something I would wake up so hungry to do because I believe God was going to meet me.
And if he didn't, I believed I got I, it was [00:07:00] a privilege to spend time with the creator of the universe. And that was just such a gift. And on top of that, I get to have some fitness and some fresh air. Like, what a gift. So that was transformative for me. And that was a big part of discerning moving to Nova Scotia and then moving to Czech Republic.
Working with deep clean, moving from secret habit to deep clean. So I've had thousands of hours of prayer walks, and that is something that has probably had many more hours than reading the word, but reading the word, like you said, has always been a part of those seasons where go for a prayer walk. And I come, would come home and maybe test what I heard on that walk with the word.
And I think that was so important. And I'm in a season right now where I would say it's, it's much more balance where I find myself in the word probably two to five chapters a day and I'm just hungry for it. As I'm, as I'm a foreigner, I'm just reading the Old Testament differently as it's all about foreigners.
So it's just been really
Sathiya sam_1: Wow, that's cool, man. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's interesting. I'm I've been in the season. I'm really deep in the word right now and I'm just I was stuck in Romans for a long time. Uh, [00:08:00] it's just so dense and I'd literally read like 3 verses and I'd spend 2025 minutes, just chewing on those verses, you know, and rereading it and getting some more context and all that kind of stuff because.
Yeah, it's just it's what's feeding my soul. I didn't know that that's the season you're in as well. So that's kind of interesting. Um, but the one thing that's kind of surprised me is I'm so I've I've been a worship leader for how many years now, 14, 15 years, and I've been on worship teams for over 20 years, almost 25 years now.
And this, like, last month. Yeah. Year and a half, I've been a lot less heavy on worship, which has just been interesting. Um, and like even in music in general, like I listen to podcasts, I listen to books, um, or I listen to Brain FM, this app that I like can't shut up about. Um, like I don't really listen to like a lot of worship music.
It's really interesting. Um, but I would say just in the last week or maybe like 10 days ago, I finally heard a new song where I'm like, Okay, this song is helping me [00:09:00] connect. You know what I mean? And that the music's been so terrible. I just haven't really been able to find music that was really helping me.
Um, so it's been, it's been kind of an interesting journey that way. It, that, that's been very unusual for me. Worship is like. Always in the fall to some extent. So it's been kind of weird the last couple of years to like not have that emphasis and yeah, a lot more emphasis on the word. Uh, definitely, definitely the prayer life.
Um, I'm kind of hit and miss with like my prayer list. We always have a list of people that we know need prayers and Shalom and I are, are, are hot cold there, but definitely always dialoguing with God journaling. You know, I've, I've like my method for journaling integrates like connecting with God and prayer life.
So that's kind of nice, but. Yeah, that's cool that you're in the word a lot, man. I'm, I'm feeling that way too.
Shawn_1: shared this with lots of clients since I, since I learned it probably a couple years back. But the, the dynamic that I was taught through this discipleship program was that [00:10:00] our relationship in God is completely secure as we profess Jesus as Lord.
It's like father, mother. and mother relational dynamic with, with me, like my mom and dad will always be my mom and dad, regardless if I die or they die, or we keep talking or don't talk, that dynamic is unbroken. It's just that they're imperfect. There can be a lot of pain in that relationship because of sin with God.
He becomes our father. The minute we profess Jesus as Lord. That's an unbreakable bond. We even see in Hebrews 12, like the father disciplines the son. That means that the son sin, but there's still father language, which means there's this unbreakable bond. That's such a beautiful thing because that's where we get our salvation is in the relationship with God, that reconciling back to him through Jesus.
But it's through spiritual disciplines that we develop intimacy with the father. We get to know. The father better we get to know his heart and his character We get to understand his forgiveness and mercy greater and that's actually where we experience blessings So a [00:11:00] lot of times we have people in some ways confusing relationship with intimacy because they start to question if god loves them Uh, but really I think the challenging part of that is he he always loves us It's I think there's just so much evidence for that.
It's that Are you in an intimate dynamic with him where he can shower you with the blessings of that love?
Sathiya sam_1: Yeah, it's so good. And it does change why you do it, right? Because I think I've definitely fallen into seasons where I'm doing it because I'm supposed to do it. I'm doing it because so and so told me to do it or, you know, whatever it is. And when you have that shift where it's like, I'm actually, I'm dedicating this time, whatever it is, you maybe only have five minutes in the morning.
That's totally okay. But whatever you have, it's like, I'm dedicating this time to connect. Like, this is just about me connecting with God. And I think sometimes when you ask people, like, what's the best for you in this season, they don't think about the connection. They just think about like, Oh, well, I've always wanted to learn more about, you know, X, Y, Z, or I always wanted to try [00:12:00] fasting.
But it's like, No, no, no, like what's the thing that's going to help you when it's all said and done say wow I actually felt like I got to know God a little bit more and God got to know me a little bit more right because there's not there's that classic verse in Matthew 7 where he's like in the last days there will be people who cast out demons in my name they'll say Lord did we not prophesy in your name.
And I'll say, turn away from, from me. I never knew you, you know, like that emphasis on like knowing, like not just, you know, in God, cause you read the Bible, but him knowing you, because as you read the Bible, you felt convicted about something and you confessed it to him and you said, God, how can I improve in this area?
Like there has to be that bidirectionality so that this is not just. Going through the motions. We're not just being spiritual disciples because we're supposed to, but there's actually connection from it and from it come joy and peace and all those great things that we're all after. Anyway, it's just that we have to have the right intentions from the get go.
Shawn_1: Yeah, yeah, like Galatians five, you know, the fruits of the spirit and all the things that most people are trying to work hard to [00:13:00] attain, but it actually comes from a life of full surrender to King Jesus. And in that surrender, the Holy Spirit has full reign over us to make us patient and self controlled and all these things.
So it's so hard. And we want to muster the fruits of the spirit up because it just ends in burnout. And that's why people stop doing spiritual disciplines.
Sathiya sam_1: yeah, yeah. Very, very true. And. Um, I think with our, a lot of our clients, we see that as well. Like when you get into their, their recovery history, it's like, yeah, you know, there was a season where I was doing a lot of X, Y, Z. I was praying a lot, or I went on this epic fast and I was really good with porn for like, you know, the next couple of weeks or months.
But then, yeah, there's, there's a burnout because what that discipline was accomplishing wasn't really anchored in like that mutual knowledge building between God and the person. And yeah, it doesn't just burn them out like spiritually. But then again, like that's, that's the big domino to fall. And then, yeah, you [00:14:00] suddenly have less self control over those temptations.
You suddenly have less of a reason to resist the temptations, you know, and it sort of spirals from there. So there's a huge link like. You know, all the research that we know about is like, if you want to recover from addiction, strengthen your relationships. Right? So, you know, for us, like, we walk our clients through a process where they're, they're building bonds with each other.
So there's great relationships there. They're healing from their parent relationships. And so there's a, there's a restoration and a reconciliation happening there. They built an alliance with their coach, um, and that's fantastic. But then it's like this relationship with God is a really big deal, you know, and when you can build that relationship and foster that relationship, like that's, that becomes everything, you know, and that becomes the source of what could take somebody, not just to a couple of months of sobriety or a couple, maybe, maybe even a year, but a lifetime of, of sobriety and freedom is going to come from.
being anchored in God and really building that intimate [00:15:00] relationship with him. Yeah.
Shawn_1: the most important thing about a person is what they believe about God. Um, Holland and I were having an argument over the weekend and I think I don't remember if I got out of hand, but I got to the place where I was like, ah, like that could have been avoided. And I remember I just said to Helen, I'm like, yeah.
And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say, I'll say, I was like, thank God, thank God he loves S H I T T Y people, you know, like, thank the Lord, he loves crappy people, and it was just like this, it was just kind of, I wanted to make it a little lighter, but this reality of when we sin, we're not separated from God in relationship, we get separated in intimacy, and the Lord calls us to repentance when we break intimacy, and we see that, like, In the garden, sin separated, created separation and death, spiritual death, but Christ reconciled that.
So it's such an opportunity when we have these hot streets of two, three weeks where everything seems to be going well, your faith is going to be revealed. The [00:16:00] scripture says, when you go through fiery trials and you develop character, hope, and then confidence, right? Like that's really the test of a spiritual discipline is what do you do?
And life really does seem to suck. Like, do you believe God is good or are you only doing them because you want to see if God is good?
Sathiya sam_1: Yeah. It's so good. Okay. So with the time we have left before we get into some questions, Let's talk about what people can do to get the ball rolling if this area is stagnant for whatever the reason may be. Um, I think the, I made this point already and I want to make it again. I think it's really valuable to start small.
And somebody had asked me this actually at a, I was at a retreat recently and somebody had said, you know, you seem like you're so on top of things with your walk with God, how do you do that? Like, how have you done this for so long? And it was, I was like, the honest truth is I had a season in ministry school where I spent three hours with God a day, two hours in the morning, a morning at night, it was, [00:17:00] it's the least realistic scenario.
I mean, like nobody's got that kind of time. It was just a window and it gave me a little injection, but what was actually the most helpful was before I went to ministry school, I was spending five, 10 minutes with God every single day and every single night. And I want to just encourage people. If you really want to do this for the rest of your life, then you don't start, you don't go from zero to 60 minutes every single day.
It's a huge jump. And we just know like research speaking that if you're going to, um, instill a habit that you want to last long term. You have to start small because otherwise it doesn't integrate properly into your daily life and your brain will categorize this as this is a season I'm doing this for now and you'll start to make small compromises that add up and eventually the thing's gone and it's burnt out like we were talking about earlier.
God is really happy with five minutes. If you give him five dedicated minutes every single day. He's going to cherish that time just as much as you will. And once that starts to become normal and [00:18:00] I would say, go do five minutes at least for two, three weeks, maybe even a month, then up it. And you're going to want to up it faster because you're like, this is great.
I'm loving it. Let's do more. Use that discipline. Just keep it at five minutes, build the foundation and slowly build up. And then you can start to add in more things. But that would be my number one tip for people starting is start small. Well,
Shawn_1: that same level is like, what do you find gratitude in for the Lord? Like, The gospel should move us to tears. The gospel is the good news that you don't deserve. What is it? That reminds you of God's goodness. Is it nature? Is it music? Is it the word? Is it whatever it is? Like that's a great place to start because I think spiritual disciplines rooted in gratitude for the gospel Will be long lasting that's an incredible place to start and that's what's shifted for me The last two years is the gospel became more real than ever I really learned like what is the [00:19:00] gospel, how to share it, how to recite it, how to live it.
Um, and, and that's so vital. And, and, and the idea of a, of a Christian life, in my opinion, it's just a life of living out what we're grateful for and we don't deserve salvation and we have it. That is an unbelievable gift. So let that move you to showing God that you want to get to know him better and worship him and, and just be in reverence of him, whatever that is, through a prayer walk.
Through a journaling session, through putting your arms up in worship. Like let it be fun. Let it be enjoyable, but let it be rooted in gratitude.
Sathiya sam_1: Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And I, I'll, I'll finish with this thought. Um, and I, I heard, I think it was Bill Johnson who said this, I forget, but somebody had to come up to, to him and he had said, you know, I'm trying to spend time with God in the morning, but I keep falling asleep. And Bill said back to him, I've never got mad at my kid for falling asleep in my arms.
And it was just so power. It just struck me. Like it was just such a good [00:20:00] reminder of like, We like when did we get especially in conversations about spiritual disciplines? It feels like we have to get it. Perfect. We have to be right. It's got to you know, Perfectly look like that man of god or woman of god that we really respect um But like, we're not just approaching, we are approaching our Lord and Savior, and we are approaching the God of the universe, and we're also approaching our Father in heaven.
And there's a lot of compassion here, like, rather than coming from this place of like, Oh, I keep failing and I gotta get this back on track. I just want to encourage you, like, the Father's arms are wide open. If you give him five minutes of your day, he's really happy with that. And even if it doesn't go really well or afterwards, you can't remember what you read in the Bible, or you feel like, you know, I did that didn't accomplish anything.
You still showed up and it's still time. It's still father son time. It's father daughter time that you wouldn't have had otherwise. And that is supremely valuable. So start small, don't put pressure on yourself, enjoy the process. And, um, hopefully we'll get some stories coming in about it. Cause this is a big one.
Really, really good. Um, [00:21:00] Oscar. Over to you, man. Let's do some questions.
Oskar_1: Let's go. So the first one is from Leonel from India. And his question is, I am 26 years old, born and brought up in a Christian household with Christian values. I got exposed to porn when I was nine years old, and I'm still struggling to get rid of it. I've been single my whole life, but I met this girl online last year and we got into a long distance relationship.
And it's my first one. After a few weeks into the relationship, I asked her about her past relationships, and she revealed that she had an intense, quote unquote, sexual past. I was taken aback and was very disappointed because premarital sex is a no go zone for me, for my Christian values. I've started spiraling and had a difficult time to accept her past and started to have OCD over it and started having mind videos.
This OCD has now latched onto my porn habit. My PMO behavior has worsened and I broke up with her because I realized the problem was in me and that she deserved someone better. Right now I'm having to address both issues, my OCD [00:22:00] and my porn habit. Fighting both has become a big challenge. My OCD thoughts still haunts me and I keep feeling miserable for having lost a great opportunity to love a woman unconditionally.
I'm really confused now and my belief system has been shaken to the core. What is the right way to respond to this challenging situation?
Sathiya sam_1: Wow. Uh, fantastic question. Thanks for sharing. Um, and, you know, Lionel, sorry to hear about what you've been through. Uh, that's, it's really, really tough. And, um, you know, losing a relationship over it and all the other challenges. I, I can definitely empathize. Um, I would say a couple of things. Number one. Um, I believe, I believe Lionel is in India, right?
Um, you know, I, I wasn't born in India, but um, I was born in Indian culture. My parents are both Indian and, um, I know that there's a lot of pressure that get put, get, gets put around sexuality and healthy behavior and sort of following within the lines. [00:23:00] So the first thing I would say here is if you're really trying to kind of get into a better place.
Um, you're gonna have to find a little bit more mercy in this conversation and a little bit more compassion and it starts with yourself. Okay, so it sounds to me like you weren't able to extend that mercy and compassion towards your girlfriend just because of her past. Um, and usually when there's areas where we can't extend something towards others, it's because we lack it within ourselves.
And I would say that's probably what's going on here. And, um, you know, in my first year's relationship, I dealt with the same thing, you know, and every time, um, I had heard about, you know, she shared a little bit more maybe about her past. It, it devastated me. I felt cut to the core and I, I always questioned whether or not I could actually marry her because I, I wasn't able to get over that, you know, and in my head, I thought, man, I've done everything right.
I haven't had any real shortcomings in this area. And she had all this history. Um, and I was making it about something that really was quite irrelevant for a long term [00:24:00] successful relationship. If if you were to, you know, survey and interview, uh, couples that have been married 45 50 years, none of them will talk about discrepancies in their sexual history.
It just doesn't matter. Um, and when I did end that relationship and I was single for many years and I was getting ready to, to start pursuing someone again, I just purposed in my heart, I'm probably going to meet somebody who has a sexual past and I'm okay with that because I have a past as well and I've come to terms with my own past.
And so I think there's a huge part here that I just want to give you permission to be a little bit nicer to yourself. Um, and to acknowledge that, you know, all fall short, we all fall short in different ways. And if you can extend that mercy towards yourself, first, it's gonna be a lot easier for you to extend mercy towards others.
So I think I'll lead with that one. Sean, what do you think?
Shawn_1: Yeah, yeah, I can, uh, empathize greatly. Um, Pauline and I both have a sexual past. Uh, she was sexually abused. She was [00:25:00] sexually active with a man like 7 or 8 years older than her when she was 16. He cheated on her. So lots of whatever were intense sexual past stuff. And it's, uh, Uh, It's something that I wasn't surprised by with the world we live in with the challenges of, you know, statistics and pornography in the church, et cetera.
So I can understand. So he has got a way different perspective than I do on culture there. So I won't touch on that. But I just want to say, man, I, I empathize and, um, had to work through some of that to some degree. Um, but also felt like, you know, Maybe because of the culture I grew up in. It was not shocking.
So I'm not going to address that. But one thing I wanted to address was this word. You said this OCD has now latched onto my porn habit and I would actually challenge that and say that and I've seen this and I can't remember where I saw the research done, but. A lot of porn addicts are perfectionists, have perfectionism.
They struggle with it. It's a fear of failure. It's black and white. It's all in or nothing. And that sort of foundational belief system [00:26:00] is what leads to porn because relationships become very challenging. Rejection becomes very intense or very avoided. And you can imagine that leaves you with, Numbing with things like porn to get intimacy, to get significance, to get security.
So I would actually probably challenge that and flip that and say that your porn addiction or porn probably latched on to your OCD and whatever diagnosis that is that so many guys I work with have a fear of rejection, a fear of failure, a fear of being inadequate, etc. And that all boils down to them acting in a sense of perfectionism.
And really, what we have there is there's this type of therapy called internal family system. So, And what we see there is there's two different types of parts. There's a part that is the manager part, and that's where we get perfectionism. It's a mask we put on that protects us from feeling pain. And then we also have firefighter parts of us that are the parts of us that do things to put out pain.
So you have, it sounds like you have this perfectionism part of you that, you know, Tries to protect yourself from pain, and then when you feel pain, you have this part of you that runs to porn to [00:27:00] put out the pain. So I would really encourage you to do some deeper dives into like the roots of perfectionism, the roots of your escaping to pornography, because that's going to give you a lot of answers.
And. Yeah, I can't speak any of that man, but internal family systems, inner child healing, attachment theory, sounds like there's some really great invitations for you to go deeper and learn the why behind the what, and I really just hope and pray that that would help you remove that. Feeling miserable because when we start to understand something, it gives us an invitation to understand how to heal it.
And when we have that, I actually think it infuses a lot of hope into ourselves to say, I'm not some messed up person. I'm not some pervert. This actually does make sense. And there is a pathway to heal it. So I really pray that you could find that. And obviously that's a lot of what we do here at deep clean.
So, uh, yeah, just bless you, man. It's a really good question. I feel really sad for what you've gone through, but I also do feel grateful. You're able to see that, um, You know, realize that I was the problem. Um, I'm sure that like, I encourage you to separate yourself [00:28:00] from the problem, but it's good to see that you took some ownership there.
And I think that could actually go a long way rather than you blamed her and ended it because of her. I think there was probably some maturity there, but some, some kindness could be infused there as well.
Oskar_1: The next question is from Dean. He's from Alabama. His question is: one of the themes I've been hearing lately is slow down and patience in living your life. What are good practices to set a pace for your recovery? Or how do you know when to move on or when to dig deeper?
Sathiya sam_1: It's a great question. And I believe Dean is a, as a client, um, or a former client. So Dean, great to hear from you, man. Yeah, it's funny. Um, one of our, our mutual heroes in this area is, uh, Eddie Caporucci and in his most recent book, that was one of his, his main themes, something that he said he's telling his clients often in his practice as well is to slow down.
I think, you know, when we talk about slowing down in a recovery environment, my, my main point I'm trying to get across is not setting [00:29:00] expectations around a timeline, you know, like, that's the classic question. Anytime somebody works with a therapist or a coach, you know, I shared in one of the episodes. Uh, earlier this month that my wife and I are doing marriage counseling and you know, we did our first session and right away I'm thinking like, okay, how many more sessions like, you know, after about 70 sessions we should be, you know, you start to kind of calculate things and, um, uh, I think the best results come when you, when you're just not putting that time pressure on and you're really willing to embrace the process.
And so I think in a recovery context, when we tell people to slow down, to be patient, um, what we're really trying to encourage people to do is to not put pressure and to not put a timeline on. By a certain amount of time, I have to be X, Y, Z. Uh, there's definitely some timeframes and some markers that, especially with our clients, we'll say, you know, by two months, here's a typical outcome by four months, eight months, et cetera, et cetera.
But I think the biggest thing is just that you're detaching from a specific timeline and really just embracing the process and [00:30:00] fully committing to it. So that would be my biggest encouragement when it comes to, I think, being patient and slowing down.
Shawn_1: Yeah, yeah, Isaiah writes, um, in repentance and rest is your salvation and in quietness and confidence is your strength. And that's, that's a really powerful language. Not only because it was prophesied that we would find that in Jesus Christ, but just that alone. Like, Our salvation is found in repentance and rest.
So repentance is what puts us into the right relationship with God, because what Jesus did on the cross, and then resting that it is true and God is good. And then in quietness, being able to still our flesh to say, That there is truth that overrides what I'm believing right now and to have confidence that the gospel is true and the Holy Spirit is more powerful and all of this can be redeemed is your strength.
Like there's a lot to be said about that. And then we see in the New Testament, you got patient endurance, like what a word, right? To patiently [00:31:00] endure. You know, Peter writes about the fiery trials that all Christians are going through. Like that's patient endurance. Like patience is saying, I'm going to keep moving forward while I wait for clarity, Or breakthrough and endurance is to say, I'm going to go through whatever the heck it takes.
Cause I already have salvation. My gaze is focused on heaven. I was reading through Exodus. It's like, they were, their gaze was on the promised land. And look how much they grumbled and failed. Like our gaze is on heaven. Look how much we grumble and fail. But all the way through the Lord provided manna and quail and water.
And it's like, we can see so much parallels that. having a slow, slowing down posture, a patience, uh, I think we can root ourselves in so much evidence from the word, but how do we practically do that? I think it goes back to what we talked about in the spiritual disciplines at the start of this session is like this, this episode is like, we really need to trust that the Lord is actually good.
And when we, when we can't do that, There's got to be some sort of tie, like a [00:32:00] part of you looking at that internal family systems therapy I talked about for the previous question. There's a part of us in all of us because of the flesh and the rebellion of sin. There's a part of us that always rebels against God.
And we need to be able to have a sense of control over that part. Not to say it's never going to get activated and be challenged, but we need to be able to understand like when that part is activated, it's It's eight years old or 10 years old. It's acting like a child who's probably seeing mom and dad's hypocrisy or is hearing that church, uh, that pastor talking about fire and brimstone, and he's not actually getting the gospel.
And a lot of healing comes when we actually let the younger parts of ourselves into the truth of the gospel and the heart of Christ. And I've just seen that be so fruitful for guys that I work with. Silence.
Sathiya sam_1: start, start right away, you know, and the, the pace that you're accustomed to, if you're trying to slow [00:33:00] down, there's some hardwiring into your nervous system there that's going to take time.
So, you know, this is something even I'm working on right now as well as really trying to slow down. And trying to be patient, trying to be present in the moment. You know, there's little things you can do. Um, but yeah, start right away and um, and make sure that you're yeah, that you're just constantly trying to iterate, Make it better and slow down more as you go on.
Oskar_1: The next question is from Joe from North Carolina. His question is, I've been clean from porn for a hundred days as of yesterday, but something has taken a toll on me as a result. I feel like everywhere I go, I run into triggers and my mind makes everything seem like a trigger, no matter if it's sexual in nature or not.
How can I go about living with these triggers around me or train my mind not to think these are triggers?
Sathiya sam_1: Okay for starters. Congrats, man. 100 days. Let's go That is fantastic. And obviously you're doing some things really well here. What you're describing is a process called sensitization from a neuroscience [00:34:00] perspective. And this is, it's exactly that it's where the cravings intensified. And your brain begins to convert seemingly ordinary things into a cue for cravings that, you know, kind of takes you down that path mentally.
So the one thing that we know for sure then is that your brain is still rewiring. And one thing that guys will often, uh, do after about a hundred days where they've gotten, you know, pretty good street going is they take their foot off the gas and they feel like, okay, I got this. I'm good to go. And then, uh, And they kick their feet up and they rest on the laurels of, you know, the 100 days of progress they've made.
This is your opportunity now to decide whether or not this is just a phase or a fad that lasts for a couple of weeks or months. Or if this is something that lasts the rest of your lifetime, and if you really want this to last the rest of your lifetime, then you need to dig in deeper now than you ever have before because your brain cells not rewired.
And this is, um, sometimes there's a compensatory, uh, compensatory effect that happens when you quit [00:35:00] pornography after your brain is dependent on it for a long time. Your brain will try to get dopamine hits other ways. But, Sometimes this is like a very active dream life, or in this case, we'll see an increase in sensitization.
Outsourcing, LLC.
you had your 100 days of success. So if all you did was white knuckle and willpower your way through this, then you, you're basically playing recovery whack a mole, you know, it's like, okay, I, I did it here, but now your brain's just going to find another avenue and you can, you can slow down the sensitization, the cues.
You're going to have something else. Um, we're going to assume that you've done some stuff to get a little bit more to the roots, to the heart of the issue. Uh, like we talk about, you know, like I triggers and trauma and self awareness and identity shifts and some of those core pillars of recovery.
Assuming you're doing those things, you're on the right track. Your brain is still rewiring. Now's the time for you to double down on everything. Really focus on the things that are working. Make [00:36:00] sure you continue to do those things and, and further your progress. Cause if you sort of coast out at this point, you're going to be back on here in three months asking, like, how do I recover from all these relapses?
Because, um, you just, you need some more time to get the momentum going.
Shawn_1: Yeah, I wrote a short ebook on the four stages of porn recovery in the first 90 days. And like stage one is like shock where your body's in shock. Your brain is like, Getting starved, you know, stage two is the test where starting to get tested, like what you're talking about. And that can range from, you know, it could be six to eight weeks, could be a little bit different timing, but it sounds like you're definitely in a bit of a testing stage.
Uh, third stage is integrity, where you start to know what you need to do, but you're, you're still in that recalibration, the withdrawals it's challenging, but there's party that knows what to do. It's like Roman seven party. He knows what to do. And part of you is really struggling. It's really important to lean into those things that you know what [00:37:00] to do and, and, and look at how can you just create some, some, some guardrails.
If we want to use that term, I'm not a huge fan of that term, but what do you need to do in those moments? Like when you get home, like after something that's been really triggering, like just really simply put without going into the deeper roots as I normally would with guys, but just simply put, it's like, what is getting triggered?
Is it an emotion that you're feeling? Scared? Are you feeling inadequate? Are you feeling like you're, you might relapse next week? Is there a dynamic in a relationship that's actually wearing on you? Is there something else going on that could be triggering the fact that a woman is now becoming triggering at the moment because you have this longing in your heart for something to be happening or something just happened in the last month or two with your mom or a female friend or something at church?
So we want to be able to look at this holistically. And when we do, what we get to do is we get to create a bit of a strategy to say, Right now, as I'm 100 days sober, I'm really happy about that. But I'm realizing that what I'm what's getting triggered is this desire for validation or this desire for intimacy with a [00:38:00] female.
And we start to say what would create intimacy in my life right now. Obviously, it's probably going to be more through friendships. But when we have those lacks. That's what's getting triggered, of course, beyond the withdrawals. But we want to go as deep as we can. And I want to get simple for you. That can be really helpful.
I'm seeking validation. That's what's getting triggered right now. Okay, well, what are some ways you can create some relational dynamics with friends that would be more validating? Um, we want to just make it like low hanging fruit. But then from there, what we really want to do is want to get to the roots of.
Why are these being triggered? What what is being triggered? Uh, within our child work? Is there is there a boy inside of you or a trauma pain point getting pushed on that is getting reminded of because it feels similar or smells similar or looks similar. You know, there's a lot of different ways we can quote unquote attack this, but low hanging fruit.
What are those triggers really touching on? And can you, can you feel that void in this in the season right now, deeper root stuff is what is that pushing on from a deeper rooted level of belief system and pain points and how can you find healing in that [00:39:00] through inner child work, attachment theory, processing your trauma, et cetera.
So you're a young man, you're asking good questions. 100 days sober is really exciting. Um, I don't think I had 100 days sober. Uh, ever until I was 25. So it's great, man. You're on the right track.
Sathiya sam_1: Yeah, yeah. Keep up the great work, man. We're cheering you on. Um, and that's everything for today, guys. So thank you so much for listening. Again, if you have your questions. Make sure you submit them using the link below. And if you're looking for more specialized help recovering from pornography, you're hearing Sean and I talked about attachment theory and inner child work and all that stuff.
Um, look, there's a case study as well. You can go check that out. You can click the link in the show notes. See if what we have here is a good fit for you. We'd love to speak with you if it is in the meantime. God bless you guys. Have an amazing day. We'll talk soon. [00:40:00] [00:41:00]
