797 - Q and A with Sathiya, Shawn, & Oskar
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Sathiya: [00:00:00] Hey, hey, what's up, my man? It's Athea Sam here. Welcome to Unleash the Man Within. Thank you guys so much for listening. We are doing a Q& A episode today, and we got some good stuff we're going to talk about before we're here. And our goal, you know, in these times together is we want to give you some insights into what's going on in the coaching practice that is sort of on the back end of this podcast.
Where we're helping hundreds of guys quit pornography all the time and give you some insights that hopefully will help you in your recovery journey. And then we're going to answer some questions so that people who are struggling [00:01:00] who maybe have hit a plateau or they hit a wall or they're down in the dumps and they need a little help while we're going to provide that to them as well.
So you're going to learn a ton on today's show. We got a good one for you, Sean. Great to have you here, man. Welcome.
Shawn_1: Yeah, good to be here, man. I think the topic is key given the season that I've been in as well. I'd love to share some insights of what I've learned and where I've struggled in regulating because it's such an important topic of being healthy as a father and as a husband and as a coach.
Yeah, I did a client event a year and a half ago, probably now. And I gave a talk called the three skills of, uh, the three skills to make a man successful in the next 20 years or something like that. I forget exactly how he titled it and by far the top of the list. Like if you really want to be successful in the
Sathiya: In the next 20 years of life as a man.
Technology advances and our society continues to devolve for lack of a better word in certain areas. Um, the ability to regulate your nervous [00:02:00] system is going to become mission critical and everything in our society stops us from being able to regulate, you know, we're inundated with stimulus left, right, and center notifications on our phone, phone calls and text messages and meetings and appointments and trying to do this and trying to do that and keeping up with the Joneses and, you know, um, There's so many different reasons for it, but the bottom line is if you fail to regulate your nervous system, you're gonna be less effective in life.
You're gonna be less effective in whatever your goals are, and you're probably gonna die sooner. That's just the honest truth. I know that's a bit morbid, but there's actually pretty good research showing now that, like, having these overstimulated, overactive and extended nervous systems is actually really bad for your health.
So that's why we want to talk about this today. It has huge implications for recovery. But it's scope is far beyond that because your overall well being is going to be impacted when you can regulate better.
Shawn_1: Yeah, yeah, I learned about it a lot more in depth a couple of years back. It was The [00:03:00] counselor I saw gave me language that I kind of knew, but didn't really know. And she brought it to a whole nother level and tied it into my, into my mother wound. And it's just been significant in taking regulation to the next level and really creating what we would say, like a nervous system thrives when you feel safe, when you feel connected, when you feel grounded.
A lot of times people think of regulation as like going and doing a different behavior, but it's really about the core elements of feeling safe. And that like that changed my changed my life when I really understood the gravity of that because I grew up in a house that wasn't safe. And it was really interesting how I felt like I was always trying to be a healthy person without understanding that layer in the deepest way possible.
And this, like, it was, I had 2 sessions with this lady. She taught me. In two sessions, what she does with other clients in 10 sessions. And I had breakthroughs like breakthrough, breakthrough, breakthrough. Cause I was just so hungry to understand this. And like a week after I had my last session with her, I started coaching other guys in it cause I was like, [00:04:00] this is transformational.
So yeah, you're bang on, man. I didn't actually know, like, it makes sense, but I didn't really think about the, the, the side of like, you, you, you would live longer. If you have a. Like, well, you look at erectile dysfunction, the dopamine sensors are overstimulated and they're not working, causes erectile dysfunction.
And it's going to be the same thing when it comes to our overstimulated nervous system. So man, powerful.
Sathiya: Yeah. There's a, there's an emerging metric in the fitness space right now called HRV heart rate variability. And there's lots of like, you know, obviously we know our, our heartbeat and our blood pressure, you know, I think people know these basic cardiovascular metrics. H. R. V. is actually a measurement of your nervous system.
And, you know, there's certain ranges you should be in based on your age. Your H. R. V. does decline with time. That's just normal. But I'm like, I'm abnormally below average. Like my heart rate variability is very low, which is indicated, indicative of an overactive overstimulated nervous system. That's not able to properly shut off and hasn't been able to for a long time.[00:05:00]
And I can tell you right now, it's funny. You were talking about safety. So I would say, and I've only been measuring HRV for the last year or so, but if I measured my HRV up until the age of about 26, it probably would have been really good. I was always. Very regulated and I didn't know I was regulated and I didn't have that language, but anytime I did get worked out or fight or flight, I always knew how to deescalate.
D right down regulate rather and just get back into that kind of homeostatic place. But then, um, I still remember it was when I started working in Toronto. So this was 20, this is actually 2017. And I remember the first day I was driving into work and I was like, what is going on in my body? I was like, All this anxiety and all this tension, you know, I was in a big city, uh, you know, I like, I didn't know how I was going to pay all my bills.
And I was starting to get more serious with Shaloma and that was exposing all this stuff. And like, everything was just like in my body and I didn't know how to deal with it. And that was like the first time I can remember like, Actually feeling anxiety and [00:06:00] knowing, recognizing it as anxiety and not feeling safe within myself.
I never had that feeling before, at least not, not to a degree that I could really remember it. Not that considerably. And, um, I, I didn't have the means to deal with it. I had no idea what was going on and it was only probably four, four years later, five years later where I was like, Oh, that's what was going on and, you know, learning to deregulate again.
But admittedly, like I'm still dealing with some of the effects of it. And in those four or five years where I was kind of oblivious is where I really pushed myself to build deep clean while working my job. And we had a very eventful engagement as I've kind of talked about before. And like, I just had a lot of stuff going on and I, I'm still figuring this whole regulation piece out again.
I'm doing a lot better, but yeah, unwire for sure.
Shawn_1: Dude, yeah, it's, I don't, I don't know what it looks like to master the nervous system. I think we learn about it. We strategize to understand it, like. You know, growing up in a household that was so unsafe with my mom. I, I don't [00:07:00] remember learning what it's like to run to my mom for comfort. So when she had high emotions, I ran, I hid, I was scared.
So I still have to remind myself that when Helena is having hard emotions, that she needs a hug and that's a good thing. Like, I still have to remind, it happened on the weekend, I have to consciously remind myself because there's that part of me that says heart emotions and women is dangerous and it's a conscious reminder of this is the best thing for mine and her nervous system for our relationship and she is not my mom, she is not scary, she is, I remind myself of these things and it's not every time, but I would say it comes up a few times a month, so.
In the hard seasons, for sure. And it's one of those ongoing things of like, that's why regulation has to be something we're very mindful of. I don't know if we ever master it because there are these parts of us that have been so overstimulated or programmed. And I think we have to just become to a place of we're in control of them, even though they're still trying to knock on the [00:08:00] door.
Sathiya: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I know for me, like I'm, I hope to get there one day. I think I'm at the point now where I can at least acknowledge, at least I know what it's like when I'm dysregulated, you know, even that was just a huge step to be like, oh, this isn't normal. And, oh, that, you know, tension that I've been feeling in my chest, that's actually my nervous system trying to signal like, hey, we need a breather here.
You know, Um, so it's, it's taking time for me to just build that awareness. And that's, I think where I'm at now is like, I can recognize it, excuse me. And sometimes I have the means to, you know, control my breath or sometimes I just even like staring at a screen is like very stimulating and you don't realize how much your eyes are darting back and forth.
So just looking outside, you know, the windows over here, so looking outside and staring at a tree just for a minute, you know, and like crazy how regulating that can be and how helpful that can be to just like. Simmer everything down. So it, it really is, um, it's been really helpful for me.
Shawn_1: absolutely, man. The, the great, um, mental picture the counselor gave me is [00:09:00] that when we're in a state of our nervous system being overstimulated fight mode, flight mode, uh, fawn mode is, it's almost like we're a, we're a hummingbird where our nervous system is so over activated and it's just a great mental picture because we all picture a hummingbird and it's like, that thing's moving fast.
Like that's what, that's what your body is doing. And then she said, and then she asked the question. What would help the hummingbird land because when hummingbirds land, they stopped flapping and it's just such a great question because it started like, What would cause my nervous system to stop running so quickly?
And that was such a game changer for me. So yeah, becoming very aware of what I like to say is when I'm a hummingbird, it just really helps me understand it. And it is those little things, man. It's really those tiny little adjustments. Sometimes we have a half an hour to do something. I have a hot bath, but I would say more times than not guys have these two, three, five minute windows to regulate themselves.
And it's, that's where the rubber meets the road. If you're going to be a healthy person or not. And that's why I'm. Such an advocate of journaling, prayer [00:10:00] walks, all these sorts of things, because it's, it doesn't really matter how long you go. It's the very essence of doing it that already puts you into a more regulated state.
Sathiya: Yes. Yes. It's so true. Hummingbird example. I love that. That's a really cool metaphor. And like the hummingbird. I was just looking up the hummingbird beats 1200 times per minute. Their heart beats 1200 times per minute. So like, that's such a good metaphor for like that overactive, really, really high fast pace, um, and regulating it.
Let's talk a little bit about how this links into recovery. So. Trigger is an example. If you feel triggered, or I would say even tempted. Another way we could phrase that is my nervous system has been activated, stimulated. This is like an engagement of your fight or flight systems. And so when we talk about regulating the nervous system, this is definitely just good for general day to day because the more regulated you [00:11:00] are, the better your decision making will be period.
And so that's obviously in the realm of pornography and whatever else it might be, even when you are triggered or tempted. Having some of those skills that Sean was just talking about to regulate your nervous system are very effective, very useful, and they could be the difference between you trying to like, you know, battle that temptation for what might be hours or maybe even days versus handling it effectively.
And it dissipating in the moment and you moving on with your day. It literally could be the difference between a relapse and not. And so, um, so this is really, really important. Uh, maybe I'll actually just backtrack one, one step. Sean, what are some indicators that somebody is, um, maybe they don't even know when they're like, maybe they're like me and they're, they don't know when their nervous system is dysregulated.
What are some signs or some indicators?
Shawn_1: Yeah. Yeah. I wish I could pull up that. I have an image of some of the actual things that happen, but it goes as deep as like dry [00:12:00] mouth increased adrenaline. Like it actually gets like the physiological makeup of of what happens within us. But I think that's really where we start to move towards.
Social media. We start to we don't take a lunch break. We work through a lunch break. We're shorter with our kids are shorter with their wives, or we avoid calling a friend when we said we would like we start to do these things of isolation, um, or we start to fight and like, strive. We find ourselves in a, you know, What, what, um, the discipleship course I went through would call default mode, where our flesh is very activated, rather moving towards a more angered, like outward anger, like raging, fighting, aggression, or we're moving towards the colder side of anger, which is withdrawing, isolating.
The middle, the middle there is a balance. And we see that in Jesus, like what we call affect regulation. So when we're moving towards like a hot way of responding or a cold way of responding, we can see that we're, we're dysregulated. And we see that what
Sathiya: Yeah. Yeah. Really good. And I would add, uh, I mentioned like feeling tightness in your chest. [00:13:00] Uh, sometimes it's tightness in other parts of your body. You clench your fist or your legs curl up. Um, uh, another one would be your jaw, you know, having like a really tight jaw. Um, So just start to pay attention to it.
You know, you'll, you'll start to recognize it. Um, once somebody acknowledges or identifies like, okay, I'm, uh, you know, I'm triggered, uh, you know, and maybe they, they saw something online or they had an imagination or whatever it might be, what are, what are the things that guys should be doing to dereg downregulate and to dissipate those moments.
Shawn_1: Yeah, you have some great content in that. I think stage 5, um, you know, you can share more about that. But what I what I learned and what has been so successful is creating a predetermined game plan for moments that what when you're in fight mode. What's gonna help you feel calm? What's gonna help you feel safe?
What's gonna help you feel grounded? What's gonna help you feel connected when you're in flight mode? [00:14:00] Same thing when you feel anger, sadness, shame, fear, when you feel these hard emotions, creating a kind of a pathway of when I feel this, I'm not just gonna go to the gym and change my behavior. I'm going to find something that makes me feel calm, safe, grounded.
Like, that's why there certainly is a behavior for me. Modification in this, but the heart of it is, what are you feeling while you do that? Because going to the gym could be just as triggering as being at home, looking at social media when people say, go to the gym and change your environment. It's like, yeah, but is that a safe place?
Is that a place where you feel grounded? Or do you start comparing yourself and feeling worse about yourself? So, for me, it's like, it was actually just last night on and I, before bed, I, we, we got into, uh, Like a very meaningful conversation that was a bit challenging and she went to bed. I was like, whatever, 9 30.
I, and I felt like there was this tension in my, my stomach about what happened. Not in like anything super negative, but it was like, there was this nudge towards like, I just, let's just watch some like street preachers or something for a half hour. And I was like, [00:15:00] I know what I need right now, brush my teeth, got into the word for 10 minutes and went to bed.
And that's really important because that's been a ongoing process of learning. What is going to regulate me? And that that's just like, that was a really cool experience. When those things happen. It's like, yes, that that's what it looks like. I think more simply put for other people. We want to try and find things that.
Allow us to like reading the Bible. Like, logically makes us feel safe. Like, it's a logical thing. Like, we're in the Bible. God's words make us feel safe. But when we get into a dysregulated state, the part of the brain that functions logically and mechanically gets deactivated. So what we actually need to do is is probably more things like music, deep breathing, breathing.
Going for a walk, calling a friend, and then once our brain gets reactivated, the part that functions more rationally and maturely, that's when we can develop the skill set to get into the word and things like that. I was able to do that because it's been a seasons of learning how to do [00:16:00] this, but I still sometimes it's like, oh, I'm going to go have a.
Piece of chocolate, you know, like obviously fail at it a lot too. Um, but it's been cool and it's really hard season that could be very dysregulating on a daily basis. Um, through journaling, um, you know, just really being close to some lifelines in my life and in the word and prayer a lot. I've seen a regulation that, uh, maybe actually wasn't even expecting it to go like this.
I was pretty unsure of how challenging the season would be. So those are some simple things guys can do is say, what makes me feel safe, calm and grounded and connected and create a little bit of a game plan that, you know, when you feel dysregulated, those are the first things you go to, because you're not gonna have to make a decision.
You're just following a plan.
Sathiya: Yeah, it's so good, man. Yeah. Um, we've had Dr Trish Lee on the show before, and we're actually gonna have her on again here pretty soon. And she did some research and her calculation showed that you have about 3 seconds from when you're [00:17:00] first triggered. To really change the outcome positively, uh, beyond those three seconds, even just on the mental side of things, if you don't have the plan in place, and if you're not equipped for that moment, then you will probably mismanage a bit, and it will stack the odds against you to actually prevent a relapse.
And so she talks, she calls it a trigger plan. You can call it whatever you want, but having something that's premeditated, it's already set in stone that when I feel triggered because it's not a question of if it's a question of when, when you feel triggered, here is what I'm going to do, and it's easy.
It's quick. I can access it. And the one thing she said that I really appreciate, and I'd love to impart this to our audience today as well. It doesn't have to be what anyone else does. The important, important thing is that it, it does it for you. It, it helps you regulate and if it helps you regulate, then that's great.
Obviously assuming that the means of it are ethical and [00:18:00] moral and whatever else, but that's like the qualifying criteria. So. It could be breathing for one person. It could be moving their body for another music is another big one. Um, and you know, having that go to song that you can just get on and get in your head and get you out of that space.
It doesn't matter what it is, but have something that's pre meditated and predetermined, and you can experiment with this a little bit. You know, when I listened to music, I just noticed it's helping. But it's nowhere near the same as when I focus on my breathing. Just a minute of focusing on my breathing was really doing it for me or, you know, whatever, whatever it might be.
I think those things go a really long way. Um, what are you doing these days, Sean? You know, you're in, um, you've undergone a lot of changes in your life. You know, you're in a foreign environment. Don't speak the language, you know, just had a second child, a lot of changes. I have to imagine you're putting in your work to regulate and stay grounded.
What are you doing?
Shawn_1: Yeah, yeah, I'd say that I've, uh, has pretty close ties to friends in Canada. So we can weekly calls kind of [00:19:00] daily every other day touches through voice messages. Uh, that's been a lifeline for me. Um, one of them was, uh, his name is Richard. He's the first guy I ever met that was like really helpful. He was free from porn and was a catalyst to like inspiring me what the future could look like.
So we've stayed really good friends and he's been, he's been pretty legendary in my life. So finding a guy like he's the kind of guy that I am very inspired by. He's a pastor, has two kids. He's, you know, we learned Greek and Hebrew, like just like this guy that I'm like, man, I want to like learn from how you think through doing these things.
So. Weekly, weekly contact with him has been so helpful. And then a good friend of mine, Timothy, um, more of like a peer to peer, just running together, like, uh, Yeah, like a Barnabas kind of like figure, and it's just been so so helpful. Um, but journaling has been the bedrock for me, man. I was just talking before our, uh, hopped on here, but I'm at 215 days in a row.
And if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have the insights into. The deep insecurities I've felt in Czech, like, [00:20:00] what are they? Why are they there? Like, it's one thing to write down. I feel insecure, but through journaling on a daily basis, it's been unpacking that and so interesting, but learning the Czech language has been a part of regulating myself because the insecurities that I was starting to feel was that I actually started to feel inadequate to learn the language and the very essence of tackling some of the lies I believe from my childhood about being shy and awkward and not having anything good to say.
Helping deal with those has propelled me to start learning Czech. And it's, it's only been like 10 days, but I've already had some like two or three really neat experiences with other people being like, so happy that I'm trying to say something in Czech. It's just really moved with my spirit. And it's reminded me that I'm a very capable person and it's just shattered a lot of those insecurities, which has helped with my marriage.
It's helped with my coaching. It's helped with just living in a foreign country. So journaling. Has made my prayer life stronger. It's made my scripture reading stronger. So it's just been the bedrock to everything, [00:21:00] man.
Sathiya: Oh, I love that. Yeah. I mean, gosh, we could do how many episodes about journaling. We love it so much. Um, you know, for me, like journaling is still part of my, my regimen and my routine. Um, but I really, I really had to learn how to regulate my breathing. That's the honest truth. The last little bit. And I find that even at work day to day, I do a lot of mouth breathing, a lot of shallow breathing, and I don't even realize it.
So for me, a huge shift has just been. Getting myself more aware of my breath and what I'm doing with it. And so I do some guided meditations before I go to bed. I'm trying to even just when I take a little breaks, you know, screen breaks and whatnot, really trying to concentrate on my breathing. And, um, that's kind of been my, my focus.
So again, there's no right or wrong. I know for me when I'm triggered now and, and, uh, I would use the word triggered loosely. I it's rare these days. I feel tempted to watch porn, but even just triggered. And, you know, emotionally with anger or something else, breathing is where it [00:22:00] always comes back to for me.
That's, that's where everything kind of is, is stabilized and, you know, kind of brought back to that place again. So, um, so yeah, this is a big one, you know, so if you're listening, hopefully this gives you some ideas and, uh, go form that trigger plan. You know, that's the thing that's really going to carry you through and, um, allow you to apply what you've learned today, but also to make sure that you're, you know, Adequately prepared for the triggers and the temptations of life that inevitably come our way.
So that's fantastic. Oscar over to you, man. Let's, uh, let's dive into some questions.
Oskar: Let's go. So this one is from Billy in the USA. His question is, with how much sexuality and nudity has weaved its way into the content we consume, what are some proactive ways we can guard ourselves from unintentionally viewing sexual content?
Sathiya: Well, yeah, it's a good question. I mean, you know, I think the first thing you have to do is accept that there's not very much you can do to to prevent some of these things. Now, there's some obvious things and we'll talk about [00:23:00] that. But, you know, for example, you know, I go to the gym four or five times a week and, you know, I get exposed to things at the gym that I, I never really thought I would.
I don't think 20 years ago they were normal, but what people wear at the gym now is very revealing and I can't really control that. Now, if it was really a problem, maybe I'd have to consider working out. In a different way or going to an all guys gym, or I don't know that you could take extreme measures, but even if you did that, if you're ever going to watch TV, if you're ever going to be out at a mall in public, like, you know, like there's, there's only so much you can do to actually prevent these things.
So there is a degree where we just have to accept that it's going to be out there. There's going to be things that that would be triggering or tempting. And that's where we want to be prepared for those moments when they come, just like Sean and I were discussing. So I think that's the first side. The other side of it, though, is if there are particular avenues where you notice, Hey, when I do stumble, this is usually part of the equation.
Then you might need to [00:24:00] eliminate it or set some boundaries around it. So for me and my recovery journey, the really obvious one, and this is in 2012, uh, with social media. So this is before tick tock. This is before reels. You know, this is when like social media was really, I would say pretty vanilla. Uh, but I just observed like social media kind of just rev that engine.
It got me clicking and scrolling and looking for what's next. And eventually. You know, I wasn't finding anything there. So then I would escalate it until I was eventually watching pornography. So that was a really easy one for me to eliminate. And I think, you know, generally speaking, that that's a, those kinds of things are good things to evaluate and assess.
Do I need this? And for me, I just realized, you know, what I'm getting out of social media is like a one out of 10. Like it's valuable. I like seeing pictures of my friends. I like being able to send some messages here and there. But compared to the destruction it's causing in my life, which was like a nine out of 10, it just wasn't worth it.
So it's easy to eliminate. Um, you know, we have over a hundred thousand followers on Instagram, super active on Facebook. [00:25:00] I don't have those apps on my phone. I don't open those applications unless I need to. All of the content that I make is in a Google doc and my team posts it for me. Those boundaries have just helped me and they've really served me.
So there's ways to do it. It's always going to feel a little bit extreme or a little bit intense. But if it means that you can be free and not engage in sexual sin and become more christ like It's a pretty small price to pay. So those are those are the things I would be thinking about
Shawn_1: Yeah. And then the other thing that I would hone in on is. If something did pop up, maybe you can take some time to reflect on what would be problematic if it was unintentional. It's not like you were looking for. But what if it did pop up? What would be problematic? Some guys have a fetish with yoga pants or with this type of body or this type of hair color, this type of ethnicity.
Why is that? Like, what's the symbolism there? That's so arousing. What's the storyline that gets triggered? Um, Gets gets activated when you see that image or see that scene. It's [00:26:00] really, really important to look at that. Like, I, I live in the Czech Republic. It's a country of beautiful women with with incredible bodies.
It's the exact type of person that would fit my arousal template as a teenager, even as a young adult. And I live in this country now, and it's such a gift to. Know what that symbolism was to understand it. Um, it was, it was even so interesting, like a week ago, I was going for a prayer walk and a very beautiful woman walked by and I was like, it's so fascinating.
I've dealt with this to a much deeper level because I live here now. That I have no desire to look, because I just tell myself, that's a very beautiful woman. I already know what she looks like, because she's Czech. Like, it's just actually become kind of comical, right? It's like, there's not, there's no desire there, because I've already dealt with that symbolism of like, a European woman, for me, was like, more beautiful than a Canadian woman.
And there was this like, power they had, because it's a very high level genre in the porn industry. And I've been able to dissect those things and realize there's, there's, That symbolism means nothing [00:27:00] to me now. These are humans that actually don't really see safe men that often. And I get to be that in this country.
So it's really cool that when I unintentionally see a beautiful woman walk by me, I get to remind myself of those truths. And obviously it's probably more like a 95 percent of the time I do that. And it's in those 5 percent of the times I understand what's going on and I don't have to shame myself for it because I've dealt with the symbolism and the deeper reason for why that's arousing.
Silence.
Sathiya: Yeah, it's so good, man.
Oskar: The next question is from Steve in Hawaii. I dated a gal in my first serious relationship a couple of years ago in my second attempt at recovery. And right now I'm kind of in my third round of trying to get serious about recovery and getting better healing. What I've been finding is killing me. And helped kill my relationship, and that's emotional attachments.
I still have lots of feelings surrounding her, and know it's part of my story to crush on girls and get really attached because of my insecurities. What are some of the best tips for healing from [00:28:00] insecurities, especially surrounding romantic desires and attachments? I'd like to get back into trying to date, but from a more emotional, secure position.
Sathiya: Oh, so good, Sean, you already kind of touched on it in the episode today. Why don't you, why don't you lead with this one?
Shawn_1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I can, I can definitely relate to this growing up with a mother that was unemotionally available, uh, depressed, made me feel very insignificant, very unsafe, very, you know, You know, lacking in the area of intimacy. So it was very easy for me as a teenager when I started to get the feels towards girls to latch on and find safety in them and find validation in them.
And like so much so that I was even afraid to kiss girls because I didn't want them to think I was bad at kissing. I wanted them to like me with this kind of this image I was putting on. And then when I, You know, I had a deeper desire and ended up I had several relationships actually like break off because I was scared to kiss the girl because I was emotionally invested.
And if she knew more [00:29:00] about me, I wasn't able to be able to go forward. So I had a lot of insecurities there. So I'm not sure if there's any relatability there, man, but I can empathize with what you're saying. And the healing for me really came in understanding the, Trauma with my mother, the mother wound of how unsafe I felt with my mom, how insecure I felt with my mom, how that bled into feeling very insecure around women in general.
Uh, very, very interesting. When I look at my, my teenage years, I was, uh, I was a jock. I was, I was like a really, like, Good drummers. I was in three different bands and I'd have women like wanting to be with me. And I wasn't a Christian. So I want to, you know, you can fill in the blanks there. And I was petrified.
I would literally play a show with my band and leave right away. Cause I didn't know what to do with women. And when there was a woman who like pursued me enough to like get my attention, I would just latch on. Cause it was like, wow, like she must be safe. Cause she's pursued me that much. So it was such a [00:30:00] challenge.
And that was some of that. Really was part of my relationship with Helena as well. My wife today is, I put so much stock on what she said and what she thought about me that I would just fall apart and go into defeatism so quickly when things weren't vanilla, when things weren't safe and what I thought was safe.
Cause I didn't know how to handle women having hard emotions or women not being perfect. Cause I didn't know what that felt like in my upbringing. I didn't have a role model to say, wow, like. Mom's talked to me about this stuff, or I feel safe with mom to handle mom when she's not okay, is, is actually fine because most of the time she is okay.
I didn't, I didn't have that experience. So I'm wondering what might be part of your experience there. When you think about that, uh, Steve, it would be really important to think about the area of attachment theory and look at what was life like in your household growing up in the emotional availability, And the safety of your mother in particular, but there could be some areas of your father here.
Um, and just [00:31:00] women in general, as you have grown up, um, have you really felt safe with women before, uh, in a general sense, or is it really just when something becomes romantic? You kind of just find somebody that is maybe overvalidating because of their own unhealth. And then you find a lot of safety in them.
But then you realize it can't work because it's not a healthy dynamic. So lots to be said about that without knowing more of your situation. I can't speak into it, man, but sounds like there's a great invitation here to understand things more deeply looking into attachment theory and inner child healing.
Sathiya: Yeah, and I would just add, I think your relationships are going to be so much healthier when you embrace some of what Sean is talking to. It's very hard to have functional romantic relationships when these kinds of insecurities are at play. And there's attachment dynamics and maybe trauma. We don't know what else is there, but being able to sort through these is going to be really, really instrumental for you.
And you should notice a shift in your relationships and your own confidence in your own self [00:32:00] esteem. So thank you Um, I just can't emphasize that enough the other side of it, you know, i'll offer a different angle Which is that I think one of the best places to find security is in jesus. It's in your relationship with god and Really understanding what it means to be made in his image to be fearfully and wonderfully made Uh what it means when you when the scriptures say that we are wholly blameless and above reproach to be a new creation You know internalizing some of these truths can be incredibly stabilizing as well You And I think it brings about a really healthy and godly confidence that's not brash and boastful or proud, but it's meek, and it's humble, and it's incredibly endearing in a really healthy way in your relationships.
And so I think in addition to some of the maybe more clinical things that Sean's talking about, which are bang on and need to happen, you can really lean into God as your safe place and your source of security, and that can go a long way as well.
Oskar: The next question is from Jonathan in Ontario, Canada. [00:33:00] I watch porn far less frequently and I've been able to focus more on my responsibilities and relationships. A struggle at this point is mostly with masturbation, and pornography is the means to masturbation. The only time when I fall into masturbation at this point are in the mornings or late at night.
For some reason, I find that I'm stuck by a deep sense of purposelessness at the beginning and end of every day. What I'm wondering is if there's a practical explanation to this phenomenon, and if so, what are some practical ways to make my mornings and evenings the best part of all the day?
Sathiya: Yeah, I mean, anytime somebody goes from watching porn compulsively and then the shift focuses to sorry, the focus shifts to masturbation. Typically, you're dealing with like, okay, you haven't really gotten to the root. Um, like it's a classic example of the roots manifesting just in a different way. Um, or you've maybe partially addressed it, but.
and
I would say that either the work that you did quitting porn is not [00:34:00] complete or perhaps it was maybe not deep enough or concentrated enough on the roots for you to really have any kind of lasting long term effect. So I think that's the more practical explanation for what's going on. You know, it's interesting.
I was just, uh, I was just watching some content and I'm forgetting his name. I believe his name is Dr. K online, a very big YouTube following, and he did an interview on modern wisdom, and they talked a little bit about pornography, and he referenced, uh, a multi, um, multivariate study where they basically were looking at all these different variables.
That contribute to somebody's porn consumption. And I forget how many there were. It was probably 30 plus variables, but the variable that was the most affiliated with being impacted by somebody watching porn was a sense of meaning in life. And so I think what you've identified is actually really powerful.
Which is that sometimes you feel meaningless in life. And when you feel meaningless, it can be really triggering. And you're coping with that meaninglessness through masturbation. I think all of that, like, makes sense the way everything's [00:35:00] tied together. Um, so the question then of course is, is like, what are you going to do?
Or, or what are, what is lacking that's causing you to feel so meaningless? And I would guess that that would probably tie into some of those roots that I was talking about earlier and often in Christian context when we talk about meaning people right away think about the talents God's given them the gifts that they have how they're going to make a difference in this world professionally Or vocationally and I think that's all part of it But I do think there is a part of meaning that comes from being in functional relationships, being content within your own skin, having a healthy connection to God, having healthy relationships with each other.
Um, there's, there's a really strong relational piece that gives us meaning in life more. So I would even say then anything we could do professionally. So I think there's, they're all interconnected here. And I think with what I've said here and what Sean's going to add, we're gonna help you connect these dots a little bit.
So you get just a bit more clarity on what you need to really focus on.
Shawn_1: Yeah, Jonathan, really appreciate you being [00:36:00] able to name that. It can be really challenging for guys to name that given. It's the very heart of the curse in Genesis three, that God, I think Genesis three, God puts on man, they'll toil all the days of his life. And really what he's saying there is like, if you try and find meaning in the worldly things, you're going to toil because you have to first and foremost, find it in Jesus Christ, and then everything else can be a bonus to your life.
But, uh, Jay Stringer, uh, wrote an amazing book called unwanted. He, um, studied about 3000 people. On their sexual behaviors, sexual stories, and the number one common denominator was futility was at the heart of their issues, which is purposelessness. And basically what it is, is like, not that many people have a life of purposelessness.
They usually have an area or two, but that's going to be poison. Some people do feel purposeless in their life, but, um, at the heart of this is saying, what is the purposelessness? Like, is it rooted in shame? Is it rooted in [00:37:00] fear? Really encourage you to go a little bit deeper.
It could be obviously like trauma base, but a lot of guys I work with, it's like, they don't want to go to sleep. Cause they're already afraid of tomorrow being a fail or just being too hard. Um, they, they wake up already behind the eight ball. They feel like, you know, there's so much shame that they're already inadequate.
They're not good enough to do anything with their life. So could be interesting to consider, like, the job you're in, Is it, is it a job that you hate? Is there fear to get a new job? Is there shame that you have that kind of job? Is there more to this in regards to, you're, you're, you're, I think it says you're single.
Is there more to this in regards to being single and the outlook on having a relationship? Is this to do with friendships? Is this to do with something bigger? Um, sometimes my unpopular opinion is that, uh, I believe depression is from the root of purposelessness. When we fight, feel purposeless, we fall into the trap of depression.
And really what depression is, in my opinion, is that we've lost something. We don't know how to get it back, and we fall into depression. There's, Different arguments on that. But I see that time and time again, when people find meaning in life, [00:38:00] they find themselves out of depression. You even see people that go into there.
They have terminal cancer. They find purpose in something. It goes into remission. It's absolutely phenomenal. So for you, man, Yeah, there's some simple steps you could take. What are some voids in your life? And how could you get those met? You know, the three main voids, significance, intimacy, safety. You can get those from God.
You can get those from other people. You can give them to yourself and you can even give them away, which we often get them in return anyways. So that would be a great place to start. But obviously you want to see maybe, is there some fear or shame here? And could there be some, Roots there where I work with guys and they feel a lot of purposelessness because there's this really high standard that was created in their life because of their dad and the work that he does, or the standard of what does it mean to be married by this certain age?
And if you're not married by 25, you're behind the eight ball. And you get all these messages from family, from culture that really do create a lot of fear and shame and fear and shame are crippling. So. Yes. It sounds like purposelessness, but I would [00:39:00] wonder what's below that. And I think that's the next step for you, Jonathan.
It sounds like you're primed to do some of that deeper work, man.
Sathiya: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think, um, all the pieces are here, man. So, so really focus on that. And the last thing I would say. Um, Sean just actually, uh, sparked this thought, which is that sometimes finding purpose and, you know, doing something meaningful is just about being part of something that's bigger than you.
Like, it could just be serving soup at a, you know, kitchen for homeless people or something like that, that just gives you a sense of purpose. So like, don't, don't overthink this. Sometimes these are big words and we feel like we have to do big things and they can be, and actually they should be. But I think small things can really contribute a lot as well.
It's not too hard to find that kind of meaning. So, so well done to you, man. We're cheering you on. Uh, look, thank you guys so much for submitting your questions. Thank you guys for listening to our podcast today and for watching. If you're on YouTube, uh, we're cheering you guys on in your recovery. If you got some value from this, there's two things you can do that really help us.
Number one is [00:40:00] ratings and reviews on your platform goes a long way. And if you're on YouTube, make sure you subscribe. And the second thing is to submit your questions. So if you have questions that you want answered starting next week, we're going to start answering some live questions. We're going to get you on here and do the best we can to navigate you through any pitfalls, any obstacles, any barriers you're facing in your recovery journey.
So please make sure you're submitting your questions. We're excited to have you guys on here in the meantime. God bless. Stay clean. We'll talk soon. [00:41:00]