What is going on everybody? Its Sathiya Sam here. Welcome to unleash the man within. Thank you guys so much for listening. I promise this interview is going to be worth every single minute. I sat down with Dr. Trish Lee. Now if you don't know who Dr. Trish Lee is, and you're probably not on YouTube, because this woman has absolutely blown up the last. I think it's only two years she's been on the platform. She's gone viral several times has 10s of 1000s I think maybe even hundreds of 1000s of followers. Maybe not on YouTube alone, but on Tik Tok as well. She's done very well there. And she is not like a recovery influencer type. She is a bonafide neuroscientist. She has her PhD in neuroscience actually studied the rewiring of the brain and kind of a more broad, general spectrum has a personal story that got her interested in pornography and pornography addiction, and how it impacts the brain. And now she does absolutely incredible work specializing in this area. So she's a fountain of knowledge. And she's just found a way to distill the more complicated neuroscientific concepts and principles into ways that you and I can understand them. So I was taking notes the whole time, we talked about everything from rewiring of the brain, neural development, we talked about dopamine, a whole bunch of stuff. And I just know you're going to learn so much about yourself, as you listen to this interview. Now, I've never actually had to do this before. But you guys know, I do quite a bit of research. I listen to a bunch of graduate level podcasts on psychiatry and neuroscience and that sort of thing. And I have a background in biology, I was a researcher in my university for several years. And so sometimes it's hard for me to not geek out. And when you geek out as fun as that is, there are big words or unfamiliar language that can rise up. And so we use a couple of terms in this podcast that I think without context might be a little bit confusing. And so I have five terms here that we use that I wanted to just explain now, so that you guys have at least a foundation or sort of a bit of a context for when we use them in the conversation because some of these things we didn't do a great job of actually defining, okay. The first one is neuroplasticity. This is simply describing the brain's ability to change, okay, generally, the younger you are, the more neuroplasticity you have. But she actually talks about how when you're older, it's not like your brain suddenly doesn't have neuroplasticity and can't change. It's just it's capacities a little bit different. So that's what neuroplasticity is, you might know that one already. Dopamine, we talked about dopamine, this is a neurotransmitter or a chemical that is that is used specifically in your brain or found specifically in your brain. It's associated with pleasure seeking, we talked about that as well. But just so you know what we're talking about when we say dopamine, we're talking about the neurochemical. Okay, getting into more complicated stuff. Now, BDNF, I mentioned this in passing, and I should have given an explanation. This is brain derived neurotrophic factor, okay. And this is a molecule that is involved in learning and memory in the brain. So basically, if they ever see this pop up, when you're engaging in a certain activity, then they know that learning and memory processes are taking place within the brain. A fourth term here that we use is Neil homeostasis. Okay, homeostasis is the body's desire to to basically keep things stable at some sort of level. Leo, in science, language means new. So new homeostasis and the context of this, we were talking about how, when you keep watching porn, or you keep watching something that's super stimulating, your body develops a new homeostatic level for dopamine thresholds, pleasure experiences, and so on. And so this was actually a very, very important term, make sure you remember that when Neo homeostasis that means kind of like a new norm. And the fifth one therapeutic alliance, this is just referring to the relationship between the therapist and the client, the level of trust and and a whole bunch of other factors, but it's ultimately describing the relationship between client and patient rather, and practitioner. So I think that'll give you a little bit of a framework. We don't normally do this. I apologize that this was patronizing. Maybe like Sathiya, obviously, I know what those terms are. But I know there's some of you who did not my kind of background or science interest, and I want to make sure we're all on the same page before we go in. So without further ado, guys, here's my interview with Dr. Trish Lee. Enjoy. So here's the million dollar question. How are men like us who work hard, have good motives and a God given purpose, supposed to fulfill the calling on our lives and the dreams in our hearts, all while establishing sexual integrity, thriving relationships and a meaningful connection with God? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Sathiya Sam, welcome to unleash the man with them.
Perfect Well, I'm here with Dr. Trish Lee. And I'm trying not to fanboy too hard, because I've been watching her stuff online for the last couple of years. And you've really found a way to communicate, like the more clinical neuroscientific aspects of rewiring someone's brain, especially in the context of porn addiction in a way that's just palpable, really easy to digest, and obviously making a huge difference. So I just feel is beyond honored to have you here. Trish, thank you so much.
Thanks. I'm super Yeah, I'm super psyched to be here. And, you know, I feel like I'm blessed with the ability to do that. But at the same time, I've been a college professor for over 25 years now. And, you know, back then it was there was Rate My Professor. Yes. And there's something different, like, you know, and I, my rate, my professor was always like, she's able to take difficult concepts and make them easy to understand and easy to apply. So I really feel like this is the most important way that I can use that skill that I've developed, like, instead of in a classroom of, you know, 30 Masters students, now it's the world and helping people help themselves. So I'm so psyched to be here.
Oh, cool. Yeah, you definitely have a gift. And that's why I'm really excited to dig into all the neuroscience and everything behind porn, addiction and rewiring your brain. But why don't we set the stage a little bit because somebody with your academic profiles certainly could have gone in a bunch of different directions, as far as you know, an area of focus, or you could have stayed broad and generalized. But you mentioned that you've been personally impacted by porn addiction and to the level that you're comfortable sharing. I'd love to hear a bit about that, and how it inspired you to do the work you're doing now?
Sure, well, I've always kind of, I've been on my own journey of personal development, that has kind of run parallel to my professional development. So the point about that is that I've tried to gamify my life a little bit in terms of like, I try to go where I'm being led, instead of like resisting and doubling down on my own agenda. And of course, when difficult things show up in your life, it's very challenging to go, okay. And I literally did this, I sat in these blue chairs in my office, and I'm like, porn, seriously, I have to go into the world and talk about porn. But someone I care about a lot was really addicted, but addicted to pornography. And, and it was someone that I knew in my office also, where I provide Neurofeedback brain training. So, like, it all kind of came together. And I'm like porn, I didn't know anything about the damaging effects of porn at that point. I think, honestly, I didn't really care about porn either way. And then this kind of lands in my lap. So being me, I dug in deep, and I learned everything to try to help this person, which took me a long time to figure out but once I figured it out, the person got better very, very quickly. And you know, long story short, is that person because I wasn't prepared to help at that time. I didn't know like I knew about the brain. But I didn't know about the implications with porn. I wasn't any good, you know, healthcare professional would do is refer out to the experts. So I referred that I still was thinking about this person, but I'm like, you know, go see a CSAT, a certified sex addiction therapist found one cent sent him spent tons of money. It was absolutely fake therapy. Like he never even entered into the recovery process with this person spending 10s of 1000s of dollars, you know, then sent in different directions. And he comes back to me and his wife, and they're completely distraught and their relationships falling apart. Their kids are a mess. In that interim, I had figured out a lot. So I'm like, Alright, let's do this. I'll help you with the porn piece too. And I doubled down and like literally, you know, I hate to use the cliche 90 days, but within just a few months, he was in a completely different place, and well on the way to hardwiring and the new brain pattern that can sustain that. Yeah, so it was it tortured me in that time, like I was anguished by the impact that porn has on people watching someone that I care about, like, lie and manipulate and self sabotage himself in terms of his work, and just completely miserable, angry, irritable, wanting to recover, not knowing how to lay, then not wanting to recover, you have go so it was really difficult for me personally. And so you know, when those things come at me, I'm like, I have to heal myself and help other people heal themselves. And that's how we all win. That's
amazing. Yeah. How does the your personal development How did that tie into your professional development and you built a huge following online I met Did that would have something to do with it? Because not every academic is putting themselves out there necessarily? What led you to do that?
Yeah. So, you know, back when I was young, I'm the black sheep of my family, which I have. They know. So which I was not so proud, originally, but then it became where I'm glad that I'm the black sheep. So when I was young, you know, I had to figure out a way to break away from my family, but still stay connected, which is very difficult for a lot of people. The reason I bring it up is most of us are on that journey. Like, you know, we have we have trauma from the past, we have intergenerational junk that needs to be cleaned up. And from an early age, I wanted to look at that stuff and address it. But my family pattern is one of no conflict, so no one can handle that. So that is part of my self development journey. So you know, I'm in school, and I'm learning all of the academic stuff. But on the side for fun, I'm trying to figure out how to address these family patterns, how to deprogram myself and reprogram myself in a new way. You know, so through that journey, that's what self actualization is Maslow's hierarchy. And self actualization is in the very lowest, it's a pyramid that Maslow came up with. The very bottom is just our basic needs, which actually sexuality is down there. It's basically food, shelter and Sex Up at the top is figuring out what your purpose is, and having the confidence and the courage to be able to go into the world and share that whether or not your family or your friends or anybody else likes it. So I still have to, it's a choice I make every day. It's not like one day, this switch flipped flipped, and I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna go into the world and be myself. Every day, I have to be like, Okay, I'm showing back up as the best version of myself. And so when porn came into my life, I'm like, I can not be quiet about this thing. Because, you know, like, like I said, you off camera. If you say the word porn to anybody, which I do a lot these days. Everybody gets nervous? Oh, yeah. Most of them are impacted by porn, whether it be themselves or a partner, and they know it. And that's why they get really nervous. So, you know, I started to say that like to people, I'm like, Do you know how bad porn is? And nope, I could see people didn't want to see me come in anymore. So I made a video, I'm like, I don't need to talk to the people in my world, I'm going to talk to the people in the world. And I it my intent wasn't even like, I don't know. And my intent wasn't even to, like, create a following or anything. It was just to, like, let one person know, if one person watched it, it was to let one person know that if you're watching porn, and you know, you can't control it, and you have a compulsion to go back to it. Like it's not your fault. It's your brains fault. Your brain was hijacked when you were young. And there's a way out of that. It's, it's an addiction. It's not like if you feel this friction inside yourself, because of this habit, like you can change it. You just need to know how to and you know, that was the intent with the with the first video that took off where I just wanted any one person to know. They don't have to stay in this loop.
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's amazing. And you're you're being modest, saying it took off. It did more than that. I mean, it went viral. And, and the rest is history. You've impacted so many lives. I'm so so grateful that you did that. I want to transition into some of the more neuroscience of this, because I think it's absolutely fascinating. And like I said, you have a real gift for explaining this stuff. Just at a broad level. You mentioned you maybe getting some flack from people who know you personally, you dropped the P word, and you're gonna get some walls up. I'm curious if you run into any of that academically, because admittedly, there's still you know, porn addiction is not in the DSM five. They're still researchers who would argue that, oh, maybe it's more someone's moral conviction that makes it such a problem, not the pornography itself. Tons of argument from different angles. I don't know if you've got any flack there, but I'm just curious, what is it that gives you? Yeah, I bet. So what is it that gives you the confidence to say this is an addiction, even if it's not in the DSM five, and if academics are still arguing over it?
And I hope everybody listening can take this one away in whatever aspect of their life, it's the truth. It's just the truth. So like, and I can expand on that in a second. But like, when you have truth on your side, and this these are the things I have to get quiet with myself when I'm feeling the tension, you know, I have to go back to my blue chair and go, but it's just the truth. It doesn't matter if the words I said came out wrong. Like in one video I called cortisol and neurotransmitter instead of a hormone because I you know, like, it's just an accident, like I and then of course, I'm like, oh, no, I'm the worst person ever. I just call cortisol a neurotransmitter and Unlike, I just have the truth on my side. And so for any person, now I've worked with literally hundreds of 1000s of people I've worked with 1000s of people personally, I've talked to 1000s of people personally, that's true. So like, even before that, I have one person in my life, who, what literally, it was a shift going down because of born. And it was one of the most difficult things for me to do. That's real. That's true. And when you see a person, and if you are that person, that's why I try to talk to one person if you're that person. And, you know, you can't control it, you know, you love it, but you hate it simultaneously. Like, that's the truth, the truth is it. And we have science on our side also, even though I would love there to be more science, and you know, Gary Wilson, God rest his soul who came before me in this crusade. You know, he put together a website with just a massive amount of science. And he has a book actually just got done writing my own book, which is very exciting. Yeah, it's really, really exciting. So you know, we have science on our side, too. And not only science, from pornography, science from the addictive processes that happen in the brain because of dopamine. So, and this is what I've said to academics in the past, like, work with me here, just make the leaps between scientific studies, like you don't have to be a rocket scientist or a neuroscientist to be able to look at 10 studies and make the connections between them. Like it just it's not that hard. So even though we might not have, you know, amassed a huge stack of scientific studies specifically about pornography, what we have is, you know, 5075 years of studies on addiction, and then now we're beginning to have studies on behavioral addictions. And there's enough of them to say behavioral addictions are real. Yeah. And there's enough to say that there's processes in the brain, especially when it comes to pornography that are hijacked early on in development, that's the most dangerous thing about porn, because most kids aren't exposed to alcohol, or drugs at the age of, you know, now, now, the average age is eight, you know, so eight, nine, so nine years old, the brain's mechanisms are impacted and changed for the duration of the consumption of porn news. But thankfully, we have neuroplasticity on our side that we can switch those things back. And before I forget, if I can just share one more thing is that in the ICD, the International Classification of Diseases, we're on the 11th edition hypersexuality has been included. So it's called a behavioral it's, I'm trying to think of it escaped me, it'll come back to me, but basically, it's it's hyper sexual behavior disorder. Okay. Compulsive hyper sexual behavior disorder. Um, okay. My, the words aren't told in the right order. But the point is that compulsive hypersexuality, has been recognized as a behavioral mental health issue by the International Classification of Diseases. And honestly, I'm not even a huge lover of the DSM To be honest, because the DSM, they change their mind, depending upon what is reimbursable, basically, so like, I actually, the International Classification of Diseases is the World Health Organization, I put more merit into what they have to say, as an organization, and they're saying hypersexuality is compulsive hypersexuality is a behavioral problem. And then guess what the number one way that that shows up? Pornography consumption. So all you got to do is take one leap. You don't even have to make 25 leaps to know that there's a huge global organization that says compulsive hypersexuality is a problem for many.
Yeah, I totally agree with the DSM five thing, even the psychiatrists I follow. They say the the last version was basically the same as the DSM four, it wasn't doing any favors, and I don't think they're working on a new version. That's what I heard at least
now. And they've done a couple of things that were helpful to the world, I think so like, you know, that's when people pull out the whole DSM thing. Again, like I just have truth on my side, I won't even get into I won't even get into that because that's semantics. Like that's why I will say to people like Why Why will we spend our time I say, this phrase a lot with my children. I have six children. I don't know if you know that. Oh, wow. So or even with my husband, I'll say, let's not focus on the non real things that are important to this issue. Because you know, if you have teenagers, your teenagers will try to derail them. real conversation and they'll try to take you off on the fake one, so that you're not talking about the real issue anymore. And I'll say that to academics like let's not get lost over here in minutia or semantics, let's stay the course on the fact that pornography consumption is running rampant porn in your pocket. All you got to do. It's the AAA, it's affordable, accessible, and anonymous. Teenagers are watching it in the cafeteria. Yeah. So like, you know, truth.
It's crazy. And I read, this is what I love about your approach to like, there's a difference between being research based and research bound. And I think a lot of our world is research bound, where it's like, show me the study, it has to be there. And I just totally agree with what you're saying. Okay, so you talked about development, and how that is a huge distinguishing factor of porn addiction from virtually any other addiction. Totally agree having been exposed myself when I was 11, and really been addicted for about 15 years before I got my own life under control. Can you tell us just through a neuroscientific lens, why that part is so significant?
Absolutely. So and breaking it down easily. When trying to think where to start, I'm going to start just really quickly with with healthy development, let's start there. And then we'll talk about what happens when healthy development is distorted. So in healthy development, this is an easy way to think about I like talking about in this way, when babies are born, they sleep all the time, because their brain is using extra slow speed Delta. Like I focus on EEG, electroencephalogram, I focus on the brain's electrical energy and how that creates the cascade of neurotransmitters and everything else. But babies sleep all the time, because their brains are making mostly delta sleep mode. And then as, as a baby gets a little bit older, then they're using mostly theta slow speeds. So that's why little kids have to take a lot of naps, and they're really creative theta. So then as an as you hit adolescence, and you're moving towards like those developmental stages in childhood, your brains should speed up enough that you're using calm focus most of the time, then into adulthood, you're using calm focus, and you only have to use that anxiety mode, when things are actually very anxious. Instead of the micro fighter flights, we've put ourselves into what happens when a child or an adolescence finds pornography at that very crucial stage of development, when theta is decreasing, and look, alpha and low beta in the middle are increasing for calm focus, the brain basically gets stuck in this slower mode. It's using too much data. And, and we know this from research, that development is stunted is what a lot of research will shift will say. So now your brain is using more slow speed, and especially in the frontal lobe, which that is the characteristic for ADHD. And that's why I call it porn induced ADHD. Because if your brain has been stunted in at this adolescent development stage, and it never got to flourish into its full capacity of calm focus, then now you're stuck needing to be stimulated because your brain is running too slow. But what happens is simultaneously if your brain is running too slow, and this is true for ADHD also, and it's backed by a ton of science, if anybody wants to know that, when your brain is running too slow, it will use a compensatory strategy to offset the slowness, it will kick it into high gear and use high beta that anxiety mode. That's why I call that brain pattern when it comes to pornography addiction, the pendulum effect that your brain is using energy too fast, which makes you feel anxious to slow which makes you feel overwhelmed or unmotivated. And you're basically swinging back and forth between these two or you can use them simultaneously. So you constantly feel anxious, but unmotivated. And you feel like you need to be calm down from anxiety, and you feel like you need to be stimulated. And guess what's the perfect thing to do that pornography, right? And you found that you found that out the first time you consume pornography, because your brain was developing and it wanted that. And you found it and it gave your brain exactly what you wanted on steroids. Right? So then if you keep going back, then so the way that I talked about it is that first time you found it, and it gave you that calming stimulation, the seeds of addiction are planted. We know that after two exposures, the mechanisms change. And basically you need higher levels of dopamine to feel the rush that you felt that first time on the second time, the brains already created Neo homeostasis. It's changed those baseline levels so that you need more stimulation. And so what it's doing is it's locking you into that theta high beta, electrical energy pattern. It's reinforcing and every single time you go and use pornography that That's how the brain gets stunted and stays in that neurodevelopmental pattern that it didn't. It hasn't flourished into its full capacity. Right. That's why people's full potential is neurologically being self sabotaged.
Hmm. Crazy.
Okay, that's why I'm like, Let's go people, let's come out of the screen. Yeah. And do what you need to do to heal your brain, which neurofeedback is one of the most powerful, non invasive things. So like, That's why if I make the videos like, I know, it's really hard to stay out of the screen, that's the first step. So you probably need somebody to help you do that. And then you grow your brain up and your brain comes into calm focus, alpha and low beta. And, you know, now I've talked to 1000s of people, you can feel away and you probably know this, if you've struggled with it, you know, you feel a way you've never felt before. It's not like you're going back to feeling good. You will feel better than you ever felt before in your life.
Absolutely, that well, especially the deal. Homeostasis is a big deal, because I think like you're creating a new real, what do you do get for your porn as an adult, you're creating a new reality that you never knew. Because the last time you were free of porn, you were still developing. So. So that is that's really, really profound. What does this actually look like? So, because I because I think we can understand like, okay, the brain hasn't developed. If you get rid of porn and your brain rewires, you're going to unlock your potential. What are some indicators? Maybe, maybe there's somebody listening who's like, oh, but I'm not that addicted, I could stop what I want, or some of those classic things that sort of keep it at bay. What are some indicators of like, no, actually, your brain is clearly stunted in its sexual development.
Yeah, so there's a lot of them. There's a quiz that I actually made two videos on my YouTube channel about a are you addicted to porn quiz? And it's funny because people it's not funny. But it's ironic, you know, because people will always put when I put the I made an infographic, there's an infographic out there probably on my Pinterest. But people always write back. Oh, yeah, you know, I have all six of them. And because those are pretty easy, it's like, do you spend time energy and money on pornography or your sexual habit? Does it pop into your mind a lot. I can't remember the other ones, I'll come up with them. But the whole point is like, those are obvious. So what I tell people is, just try not to watch it for for a month. You don't even need like you don't need a quiz. You don't need anybody to tell you anything. Try not to watch it and see what happens to you. And the weirder it gets, the more you know, you have a problem. Like one gentleman just not to get too graphic. But one gentleman broke his right hand. He desperately used his left hand, he emails me he's like, and this isn't the first guy who's done it. He's like, I broke my right hand. I never thought I would stoop so low to have to use my left hand. But here I am. I have a problem. Wow. And then what a lot of people will do is if they promise themselves, they're not going to watch porn, they'll watch a lot of porn adjacent. Material, sexual media. So yeah, so you know, the social media stuff ramps up there, you know, making every excuse in the book, they're on Victoria's Secret, or whatever websites looking for lingerie for their wife, which is not true. It's just trying to get dopamine hits for the brain. And if you can look at yourself, self awareness is that what came to my mind is that the journey of recovery, there's four pillars of emotional intelligence, which I've made videos on this also, the first pillar is self awareness. Self awareness is really low when it comes to people who are addicted to pornography because of that stunted development. So you're asking an unaware person to become aware of their own behaviors, that becomes very difficult. That's why why I think looking for the weirdest thing can be the eye opener because a lot of the non weird things have already been justified and rationalized.
True. Yeah. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I'm so glad you said that. That's actually our first pillar of our recovery system is self awareness for the exact same reasons. So I want to touch on dopamine a little bit, because it obviously is becoming a bit mainstream. And I love hearing something like you talk about dopamine, because I think anytime it becomes mainstream, we always end up diluting the definitions, and you get a lot of misconceptions. But I wanted to talk about a particular aspect because my understanding is that the dopamine is at its highest in anticipation. It's not even the hit. It's the anticipation of it, then you get the hit, and then you tend to go below baseline and that's what keeps you wanting more. That's my understanding. I'd welcome any correction, but I'd love for you to even just comment on it. How does dopamine play into this whole addictive cycle?
Sure. And so you know, and Typical me fashion, I've created a cycle of porn addiction or hypersexuality with a hevs 3ds. Because I try to have people remember. So I call it a dopamine drip. So the minute somebody has the notion that they're going to watch porn, they will get a drip of dopamine in their brain. And the drip is like, oh, yeah, you know, that's gonna feel good. Once the drip starts, science shows us that you have three seconds. And if not, your brain will chase down what I call the deluge, the flood. So like, once the drip is dripping, it's really hard to turn the drip off, you have to follow it through to completion. If you are caught in a cycle of addiction, or compulsive behavior, as I don't I love the word addiction, because people are like, addiction doesn't. You know, I'm not addicted. But compulsion is a better word. Because like, if you are if you feel the poll, that's a compulsion. So like once that dopamine starts dripping at the thought, or if you're checking somebody out in the world, and you get a little hit of dopamine, that's a drip. So I want people to start increasing their self awareness by going oh, yeah, I felt that little drip of dopamine. That's the reason why they feel like they need to chase down the deluge. Because once you start dripping, it's really hard. And part of my program, I call it a pivot plan, figure out what you're going to do. You got three seconds, you can't decide in that moment, what you're going to do, you have to know what you're going to do instead. Yeah, then the deluge is the flood. And that's when it feels good. But the drip is really the anticipations where it feels really good, the flood starts flooding the system out. And in a second I'll share with you I see what people's brains using EEG, I can see what it does to people's brains. And I'll share that with you. It's terrifying once people know like if they care, it's terrifying. But that dopamine deluge numbs the brain out. And I added a fourth D actually, I call it drowning. Because like, basically, people drown their brains in dopamine. So like if the longer, the more frequent, the more consistent, the longer the sessions. If people are edging that's really very dangerous when it comes to this whole deluge and drowning. And that it numbs the brain out. But you don't feel numb for no reason you feel numb, because there is so much dopamine in your system. But then what happens is on on the end of that you have a dopamine deficit. That's when you drop below the baseline levels. Cortisol, which is a hormone, spikes, cortisol is the stress hormone. So not only now you're back in your life, you know, you're wrapped up your porn session, you're all numbed out, but then it's a day or two later, you're back in your life. And you are miserable. Because there's not there's no dopamine there. In a healthy brain, your brain gets taught that there's dopamine in your work. There's dopamine in your honey, in your partner, there's dopamine in your friends, there's dopamine in dinner, there's dopamine in your hobbies. But when you're sucked into this cycle, you taught your brain, the dopamine is in the screen. Because there's nowhere in the whole world you can get as much you can't get that, that deluge or that drowning. So now you're back in your life, and there's none, you're in a deficit state. And now you actually have more stress because cortisol has spiked to offset that deficit state. And there's only one thing that can take the edge off of that, to get back into the drip, the deluge, the drown, it's going to bring you back to the deficit. And that's why tolerance is built over time, and you need more and more dopamine. But, but that's where the damage in the brain comes from. And this is what I was wanting to share on EEG. I can see why encourage people to get the Muse headband. I don't know if you've heard me say this. We can talk about this later. There's a headband that you can purchase. And if you buy it off my website, you get a 15% discount, so ends up being 221 US dollars and they have an international store. I have people all over the world using the muse. Okay, cool. So, on the muse, I can see the dopamine, drowning and deluge. So when I work with people, I'll look at their muse graphs, I have a provider portal. So if you give me permission, I can see all your muse graphs. We come on a meeting, I'll look across them and I'll say okay, I can literally see the anxiety Brill Building in their brain over the course of days or weeks. I can tell them what day in time they watched porn. And then because then their brain is just completely numbed out and flooded with dopamine and then the cycle I can tell them what their cycle looks like when I have consistent graphs from the Muse headband. When I work with people in home neurofeedback, which is the program that I offer people to work with me. When I work with people there we do a brain map and what I can see In the brain map is that what happens over time. So I told you about the pendulum effect theta and high beta. What happens over time, if you keep going into the dopamine flood is alpha goes really high. Alpha is the calm part of calm focus, it's pouch Mon. So your brain swinging between these two, but at the same time, you're stuck in this like unmotivated. Just couch mode. That's why people over the course of time in an addiction, they end up on the couch, and they lose all touch of their purpose in life. Because not only are they using the fast and the slow, basically, that's taking the power away from their brain as well.
Wow. It's really, really insightful. I'm wondering how this impacts neuroplasticity because I think I was hearing Dr. Huberman Andrew Huberman talked about this, about how even just somebody's belief that something could work having that hope. Because in some ways, addiction is like like anticipation. It all sort of ties into that hope concept, right? And the more you are, the less hope you have, the less neuroplastic you are like the less of BDNF and some of those other chemicals are there for you to actually form new pathways. Is that would that be true as well, it's going on here.
100%. So that's called the placebo effect. And I've had this discussion with academics and clients alike, is that it's the placebo effect versus the no SIBO effect. And actually, the Mayo Clinic did a really nice article on the difference between the two. Or if you look up placebo versus no SIBO, you'll find a cool article on it. And it's basically showing that when you think a treatment or a program, or a person can help you that hope changes the way that your brain and your body functions. Yeah, so that's the placebo effect. It's like, Yeah, I'm going to do this. And it's going to work where they and they've done. One example is they've done sham knee surgeries, where people didn't know if they got the real knee surgery, or if they got a fake one, where they just did surface incisions. And the study shows that the people who thought they got the surgery, they got just as much better as the real knee surgery. Like that's the power of the mind. That's the power of the mind. And actually, my new book is called Mind Over porn. Because it's a really important aspect of you have to commit and you have to know you can do it. And that's why in the videos, I'm like, You can do this, you have neuroplasticity on your side. And the no SIBO effect is if you don't think the thing is going to work for you, then it's not. So when people say to me, I'm a skeptic, the first thing I say no, I love it. It's skeptic because this just does work. You know, I got truth on my side. But at the same time, like I won't work with people who one gentleman's like, there's a long time ago, you know, convince me and I'm like, Oh, I'm sorry, you're in the wrong place. Because I'm not here to convince anybody about anything. What I'm here is to help people who are ready for help, like, I will not spend one iota of energy convincing anybody. That's not my ideal. My ideal is to empower, inspire and present the healing tools that actually work. You have to believe it. And then when you do your mind, is able to take all that tool, all those tools and to use it.
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think it's why a lot of the papers, at least in psychiatry show that therapeutic alliance is almost like the greatest determining factor of whether or not someone gets results, right? Because if you trust that person, even neurologically, as you're explaining, like, there's a huge impact there.
Definitely. And I tell people like that's why, you know, when I'm telling people to go get help for porn, I'm like, work with me if it feels good, don't if it doesn't go work with anybody who you have that connection with, because it's absolutely one of the most important things therapeutic alliance for sure.
Yeah. Okay, so we've given people an understanding of what's going on in their brain when they're struggling. So, so lower development, kind of the pendulum swing between beta and theta waves in the brain, eventually the alpha waves as well. So you start to feel that hopelessness, hopelessness and that lethargy. We talked about dopamine, so the four D is very, very helpful. So I imagine maybe people are like, Okay, I understand why my brain is messed up. But Dr. Trade has helped me what do I do to actually get my brain back on track again?
Totally. And that's why I like really, ultimately, I'm here to help people not sell programs. So that's why in the videos on YouTube, like if you haven't seen my YouTube channel, go to my YouTube channel, there's literally over 500 videos there. And, you know, I made them from my heart I did not I make them from my heart on a daily basis, like whatever shows up in my world because of people I'm working with because of the person in my life that I know that struggle with porn with, you know, whatever shows up for me is what I make the video on. So unfortunately, it wouldn't be Email me, how do I start? It's not organized in that way. But there is there's a few playlists of 30 day challenges. There's few playlists that walk you through. And then you can search for any given thing that you're struggling with. And you know, you'll be able to find it. But in every one of the videos, I give a brain hack, at the end of the video, I explain to you, you know, what's going on the thing that is challenging how it's impacting your brain, and something you can go do right now to move yourself in, in the right direction. So I tell people get a journal, and literally write it down neuroscience shows if you write these things down, and if you start to contemplate this stuff. And if you start to put action steps, like even though that's the messier, less direct route than getting into my 90 Day Program, or working with a coach, at least you're starting, and then small baby steps will start to add up, that I tell people get the Muse headband, I never have to meet you ever. If you get it, and you use it, it will help you that increases neuroplasticity in your brain, it pulls the slow and the fast speed down. It's like a workout for your brain every day. So if you want to increase your neuroplasticity and make it so that you can actually go do the behavioral changes that you need to get the headband, save your shekels. And if you get it on my hands, people say to me, it's an investment I know. But like, unfortunately, you have to invest in yourself if you want to get well. And if you get it off of my website, I say this with, you know, glad to be able to help people not out of pride is that I'm one of the top world ambassadors, people who share about the muse, because so many people are buying it. And then like literally I could tell you so many stories, one gentleman that I never met, he sent me access to his muse graphs, because he told me, the Muse made it so that he could leave porn behind. And he had OCD and he doesn't have it anymore. And I wrote him back like, would you? Would you let me see your muse graphs? Because honestly, I didn't totally believe them. So because I'm like, you know, this guy had from what he had written me, he had big problems, and like, you know, big problems probably need somebody to help him. Yeah, he shares the graphs with me and his brain went from seriously dysregulated not using the healthy pattern to using the healthy pattern consistently. Wow. So obviously, it enabled him to go make the changes in his life, because you do have to make life changes. But using the headband, allowed him to go into the world and make those changes. And he was able to do it. And then he absolutely got the brain changes. And he reported the life changes.
That's amazing. So the so it sounds like the headband can give you diagnostics, or at least give you some information, but then it also is going to help in that rewiring process.
So it will give you info and it will make the changes.
Okay, okay, what are the what are the concepts that are kind of underpinning those changes? Like what what is it that allows the brain to rewire and to change?
So, first of all, when your brain gets stuck in this pendulum effect, I call it neuro rigidity. So it's rigid, it's actually stuck there. So there has to be something that unsticks it. We also know that trauma creates neuro rigidity, whether that be PTSD, or C, PTSD. So there's, there's trauma, and then there's kind of complex trauma, which is family dysfunction, or low grade lower grade abuse over a small amount of time. So in the program that I offer, the 90 day program, we break it up into unwire. rewire and hardwire, I promise this answers your question is that when you start using the headband, you're decreasing neuro rigidity, you're increasing neuroplasticity. And we now know that brains are plastic across the lifetime. So if you're 78, and you're listening to this, this applies to you. Because a lot of older people will say, I'm too old, you know, someone Someone emailed me at 55 Is this worth it? I'm like, you're 55, not 105 I'm talking into my phone, you're 55 not 105 going into work. And so, you know, when you start using the headband, you can see it too. So you might be able to see the challenges your brain is, is struggling with. And then you can see when you have better days you can see when you have worst days and enables you to make better choices. But then, you know, that's why in my self development, life back when I was wanting, I started to learn about like my, you know, my trauma, thank God is lower grade, but there's enough of it that, you know, my coaches and therapists over time had to reassure me what I'm talking about is actually traumatic. Actually what I've learned about myself is that I now Miss grade trauma, because I was taught to miss graded, right. And so like learning that was huge for me because I'm like, I miss grade things because I'm taught to trust people, you know what I mean? So, like, so even that was an interesting little ditty for myself in my own. That's what I help people do is to help them explore some of the patterning that's happening in their current life that came from their childhood life, and to learn how to make new choices. So for me, it's always about for me being able to step into a situation calmly, compassionately use my voice and my strength to hold my position on what I believe. And so like, you know, I have to show up and exercise that people can learn one thing like that, that can really change their lives. Okay. And then rewiring is all about changing your behaviors, changing your routine, changing your schedule, if it's not scheduled, it's not real. Yeah, like you have to fill the holes where porn used to be with healthy mood regulation, because we know from the signs porns being used to regulate your mood, offset stress and boredom. Yeah, right. So that's what the whole rewire is figuring out how to offset stress and boredom in new ways. And 50 new ways, not the old one way of porn 50 new amazing ways that give you a full life. Yeah. And that's why I was talking about work that you love, hobbies that you love and relationships that you love, because that covers, right and just just to share one second on the neurotransmitters when you do that, you're getting healthy levels of dopamine, you're getting serotonin. So going back to the misunderstanding of dopamine, dopamine is the pleasure seeking neuro chemical. That's why it feels good in the drip part because it's insatiable, its insatiable, it's always going to seek for more pleasure. Serotonin is happiness. So serotonin is like a sunset, you sit there and watch a sunset for 15 minutes and it fills you with joy, totally different than a pleasure hit. And it's longer sustaining serotonin longer sustaining. And oxytocin is the neurochemical of coupling of, of engagement with other people. Hopefully, you don't want to couple yourself to a screen and to yourself, because that's very distorted coupling, and that they call that the happiness Trifecta in neurochemicals, when you're hitting the sweet spot, and you're getting all three of those, that's what the rewire part is.
Right? And we don't have time to get into it. But I'm guessing even what you just said about oxytocin, that would be some of the dangers of masturbation, right? Is the the kind of self bonding, basically distorting that coupling or that bonding principle, right?
Definitely. And if you're bonded to yourself, it makes it very difficult to bond to other people. And you're bonded to yourself with super glue. Yeah, right now it's the regular glue of a healthy relationship. So we know from you know, anecdotally and scientifically, men who are in a compulsive porn and masturbation habit, find their partners less attractive. They're, they're less attracted to being with their partner. And we haven't talked about erectile dysfunction, or performance anxiety yet, that is impacting young men. So we know that young men now have anxiety and they don't even want to go out and try to find another partner to be with sexually because there's so much anxiety surrounding performance and erectile dysfunction, which is a real thing. Yeah, it is, and it's coming from their brain. That's right. Because what I didn't share with you yet is that the midbrain is where the reward center is. And when that dopamine flood comes in, it is d sensitizing the reward center. That's why you need more and more more intense porn, longer porn. You need more and more because those cells are actually becoming desensitized, so you need more of it more often. So then your wife wants to be with you. And there's no way your partner can compare to the levels of dopamine that you get with this increased intensity. And, you know, sometimes it's physical stimulation. Masturbation is more physically stimulating for most people. Especially when they've ramped it up. They've made it more physically stimulating.
Yeah, big time. Okay, one more question about rewiring and then I'd love for you to talk about hardwiring as well. We've used a question and I'm wondering if you would push back on this, but we've used a question, which is, is porn serving or is it operating in this moment as a relaxant or stimulant? Kind of like identifying like, what is it how is it serving? And then that sort of being Intel for then, okay, well, if it's serving as a relaxing in this moment, what's a better, healthier, superior way for you to get that same effect? Again, I welcome any kind of pushback. But I guess I'm just curious, like, are there questions people can ask themselves when they're at this part where they're trying to find healthy alternatives? What would be a good way for them to go about that?
Yeah, sure. So it is acting as both. Because the pendulum effect requires both a stimulant, and a relaxing, but for any given person at any given time. And this is how the electrical energy works. Also, one could be higher than the other. So a question I asked people, and I'm going to ask you and your listeners right now is that like, for you, it doesn't serve mostly as a relaxing or as a stimulant. Most people, it's a relaxing, most peon in science supports this also that it's being used as mood regulation, primarily for stress and anxiety, secondarily, for boredom. So like one out of every 100 people that I work with, it's boredom. And they need a lot more stimulation for 99 of those 100 people. It's a de stressor, and they need ways to calm down. Yeah, but what I tell people in recovery in the rewire process is to find things that stimulate you in the real world, and find things that relax you in the real world. And you can find things that do both simultaneously. True. So when and that is the solution right there. Like I know, it's difficult to do in practice, because I work with so many people, but even in my own life, you know, because I'm reinventing, and I've been presented the beautiful opportunity to reinvent myself yet again. And so I'm reinventing myself and, you know, finding healthy ways to chill out at the end of the day, making yourself go do the fun things that you want to and not just pushed through a 12 hour workday. You know, for the people who are stressed out. I talked to a gentleman the other day, and he, he's like, honestly, you know, he's tried to help me work like eight hours. He's like, honestly, I'm in front of a screen 15 hours a day. He's like, I work like 10 of them, but I'm in front of it for 15. I'm like, that's the problem right there, my friend.
Yeah. What are some examples of activities that would be both, you know, a stimulant and a relax, are stimulating and relaxing? Sure.
I'll give you a couple examples. But first, I'd like to tell your listeners what they can do. Free Flow write down before I give you any ideas because my ideas might not work for you. Your journal out. This is what I tell people get a pleather journal off Amazon, you can get one for like $9. So you don't have to break the bank, get a pleather journal, and literally start working on some of this in this journal. And write down when you are kiddo, your inner child, because this is a big part of the journey. What did you like to do? And write it down, sit there for 20 minutes and just keep writing don't stop writing doodle when you don't have an idea. Just stay in it and figure it out. Think about little you and I've done this, like, you know, people read my journals. They think I'm nuts. It's like little Trish, what is she actually like, in a cool thing. Like it's pretty wild. Because I pride myself on not watching TV. I don't know why I'm, I'm learning this about myself. Like, okay, so a step I made this. And I'm gonna give you a list of things in a second. But a step I made is, like, at the end of the day, I push way too hard. So I'm trying to watch TV. So a couple maybe a year ago now I made my own avatar on Netflix. You would seriously like think I won the lottery. In my in my family's like, what's up? Who's still, you know, wise? I named it sweet mama. I'm like, like, Who's that last avatar? There's a long story behind that one. But But anyways, so now I've been trying to watch shows to find things that I find relaxing and stimulating. And I've been watching the crowd and I've talked about it lately. And something that I've learned is that I like history, which I forgot that about myself, because I spent all my time thinking about science, right? I'm like, Oh my gosh, when I was a kid, I really loved historical stuff. So I've actually been digging into some more historical stuff, which has been really fun for me revisiting some little Trish stuff. And you know, I I watched like 30 minutes of TV a couple nights a week. It's not like I'm binge watching TV, but it's become a cool way for me to relax. And so I've discovered that about myself. But like, you know, the list is long. Think about what your favorite hobbies are. Another thing I used to play the flute not that I want to play the flute again, but I'm like I and I love Ed Sheeran, Ed Sheeran has a new guitar line with Loudon, which is Irish, which I'm Irish Irish guitar manufacturer, so I'm gonna buy a loud guitar. Because I'm like, you know, this way I'll, I'm gonna get back to the roots of playing an instrument. How cool is that? Right.
That's amazing. I love that. That's for me right away when you ask that question, by the way music huge part of my upbringing.
Yeah, So you can, you can use play instruments exercise is huge for me. So I like to box I talk about that a lot. And I started doing that a few years ago I have a boxing dummy. I, I've always worked out there's many different ways that I work out that I enjoy. You know, I have bugs I have Stand Up Paddle Boards, like anything that falls into that but think about a stand up paddleboarding is relaxing, and stimulating. Like, you know, I'll paddle out in the middle of the lake, and then I'll chill and I'll swim with whoever came and we'll lay on the boards. And then we'll race calming and stimulating. And you know, the gorgeous I live in North Carolina, gorgeous North Carolina son, you know, if you'd like to roller skate, roller skate, if you'd like to dance, go dancing. One gentleman that I work with, he loved to sing in the choir, and then COVID hit. And then when COVID was over, he didn't want to get back into the choir. And he goes to karaoke night in his town, every single Wednesday, whatever. And he practices before he goes, and he's getting good. And he's getting a following.
Right? Yeah, it's
super cool. So like, your thing might not be my thing. But like, make that big list of things. And they, what I try to encourage people to do is to have it include all the aspects of their true self, have it involve your mind, your body, and your spirit or the real you that's in there. And that's why I like you know, the, that's why I thought the crown with history was really cool, because I'm using it to relax my body. I actually remember that there's something I like from childhood, which is my real self. And I'm using my mind to think about it, you know, like, my husband would come in, he's like, there's so much going on in this and I'm like, That's what I like about it, you know, but you know, for some people, I've seen all the Avengers movies, and you know, my one son knows all the everything connected between them all. So I know a lot about that, like that can be mentally stimulating, too. It doesn't have to be history, it can be knowing all the three lines of every single Avenger movie.
That's amazing. Yeah, really, really helpful. I want to respect your time, but if you don't mind I Are you okay for time, by the way.
Yeah, yeah, I always schedule huge blocks. I don't have to rush. Oh,
okay, amazing. So I guess I have a final question about hardwiring, which is kind of where all this culminates cast a little bit of vision, because I think this is really important for people that are listening, where maybe they're just, they're just at like, stage one, they're at ground zero. And not everybody's like this. But I know even for me, I was super compelled by my vision of a life without porn. And it got me through some of those hard moments, the withdrawal symptoms, all that kind of stuff. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit about certainly what's going on neurologically, when the brain does hardwire into these new patterns. But also, what does that look like? How does that translate into real life?
Sure. So I'm gonna go back for one second, if it's okay, and talk about like I mentioned, the concept of inner child, and which is a concept therapeutically inner child is like figuring out who you really are. And I, I liken it, or I give the opposite of the real self that's in there, as Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. If you know that novella, those concepts, Dr. Jekyll puts on a mask and goes out into the world and keeps up with the Joneses. And it's like absolute crazy because people I interact with when they have a hardcore Dr. Jekyll mask on, I'm like to take the damn mask off. Like, I just want to get to know you as a person. But we're taught to go out and be shining out in the world. And to present the very best but artificial version of ourselves. The more you do that, the more Mr. Hyde will show up. And Mr. Hyde is insatiable pleasure seeking. Because you're out there being fake so much that then you have to go into your man cave or your room or your car or wherever, and to offload the exhaustion that comes along with that. And when you hardwire in a new better brain pattern, it has to go along with the real true you. You have to figure out who you are. And you have to develop the courage to be able to stay there or when you don't investigate why you're not and get yourself back to being the real you. If you do that, what will happen is your brain will come out of these extremes of the pendulum effect. And you'll always stay in integrity, you'll be in the medium zone, because you're never faking it, which will never give you the shame and the guilt that pushes you into the screen into whatever else to offset those negative feelings. Right. And I so there's two other things that are important. Three other things which I'll talk about quickly is that this goes back to electrical energy in our systems. There's a book by Dr. David Hawkins. He's an MD PhD power versus force. I've talked about it before, where the energy that our brain the pattern that our brain uses, then affects our electromagnetic field. And you may have felt this someone walks into the room and You're like, oh, I want to meet that person. They're just kind of like giving off positive Juju. Or they'll be another person and be like, I'm not going over there. Because that dude is just vibing anxiety, like you want to believe. That's because the electromagnetic field coming off of them is a resonance pattern based upon how the brain is performing. So when you go into the screen, and you feel shame, or if you're out there faking it, and you drive a Maserati, but you have no money like that, that's not integrity. That's it gives you guilt and shame. And then nobody's doing it to you're doing it to yourself. Yeah. And then it creates the need to go into Mr. Hyde. So like my husband, I've done this lots of times in our lives, where if our spending got away, we've sold all of our stuff, right? Because Because I'll desperately do anything, when I recognize we're getting out of integrity, we'll get back into integrity, because this isn't perfect. This is a process for the rest
of your life, you got to be vigilant with it.
You got to be vigilant in a good way. Like when you recognize like, oh, you know, that person impacted me. And I they made me feel like I can't keep up. So now I went and bought something I can't afford it. It'd be like, No. And for me, it's the opposite. I just, I just made a podcast saying that I I've been sick, and I've had to spend all this money on being sick, I realized I don't ever spend any money on myself being well, that's a pattern for me, I'm taught not to spend money. So I'll spend it on my husband, I'll spend it on my kids, I won't spend a dime on myself. So I got myself a new car, I upgraded the car. And it actually didn't cost me that much. I just sent the message like, I'm going to spend money on myself well, so I no longer have to spend money on myself. Yeah. And so like, it goes back to my childhood programming. So there's two other concepts. I use something called the Enneagram personality test, I have people do the Enneagram. And I know there's different personality tests, but it's really powerful. Because it has there's nine different types of personalities. And I've never met someone who isn't hardcore, whatever they are, you know what I mean? Like, it's very actually there's, there's science that shows that it is, it's spot on. And within each type. Basically, what the nine personality types are, is, it's the mask you learn to put on when you were a kid. So there's an achiever mask you learn to achieve.
That's me. I'm a flaming three through
three, it's a while because I was watching, I was watching on Netflix and my new account, I pulled up the Taylor Swift. And she has some documentary right now. And she's talking about how much she likes the praise. And I'm like, You're three, you know, I'm a five. And so five, fives need knowledge to make them feel safe. So when someone in my world has a porn addiction, the only thing that I can do to make myself feel safe is to learn everything about porn addiction.
Okay, got it. That makes sense. So that
is my mechanism to make myself feel safe in the world again, so, but fives when they're unhealthy, they keep all that information to themselves, because they like to feel smarter than everybody. So part of my journey long ago was sharing everything I know whether people want to know it or not. Yeah, like, I'll collaborate with anybody, I will not, I will not hang on to anything, I will collaborate with everybody so that I'll share any information that keeps me the healthiest version. So within the personality types, there's nine levels. And if you're down here in addiction, if you're up here, your true self, you don't need the mask. Right. Okay. And then So lastly, to answer your question about hardwiring, I have people go through a process in nine different areas, which I don't know if I'll be able to remember all of them right now. Nine areas where they set goals for their life. And it's what you said is, is setting sights on the future the future that you want, and that you know, you can create. So when you come up with the goals in these nine areas, and then you set objectives underneath the top three, because you can't work on everything at same time, then you have a really clear idea of what you need to do. And so for me, it's like its desire and will you have to the will part is you have to be able to Oh, Jamie just gave me them. I'll tell you what the areas are, you have to be able to go okay, I want this, but then go do the things like the doing that things are the hard part. And the the nine areas are emotional, spiritual, physical, familial, social, financial vocation, which is job in avocation. And so like when you really get clear on what you want your awesome life to look like then and when you make steps for yourself. And then sometimes you need someone to hold you accountable. I always have a coach actually, I usually have at least to coaches, right now I have more than two because I'm trying to become a really great version of myself. And then the coaches hold you accountable. They go, this is what you said you were gonna do, right? And then then I come back and I showed my coach my new car, because she's like, You need a new car. I'm like, my car screen. And she's like, No, you know what I
mean? Like, just like,
not easy. And I went by myself to get my car. So when I, when I showed her the new car, she's like, this car is perfect for you. Congratulations for doing that for yourself, you know, holding me accountable. Because if I didn't go back, I might have just not done that.
Yeah, yeah, it's really, really powerful. And I do appreciate you sharing some of your own story, because I think sometimes they see Dr. Trish Lee, hundreds of 1000s of followers, we just assume you got it all together. And we're all working, aren't we like I, the one thing I always teach my clients to, like, freedom is not binary, like, you know, like freedom from porn. This is an ongoing thing. And there's a there comes a time where porn is no longer in your life, you still work at your freedom, you know, like, this is an ongoing journey. Right?
Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's the gift. You know, right gift is, it's that's the gift of humanity, as painful as it can be for me, like, I in the human, this a five thing, this is totally a five thing to say just so you know, I think the human conditions were challenging one, right, so. But when I look at it as my greatest gift that I get to figure out across my lifetime, like hard stuff comes at me all the time. I remember I made one video two years ago, and I had some I was I know what I was dealing with, too. I was dealing with something really difficult in my own life. And I was having a hard time keeping it together. I was making the video. And I'm like, just so you know, like I was in the mountains at the mountain house that I have. And I'm like, I'm in the mountains and working on this difficult thing. And someone wrote, oh, we forget you have problems too. And, and you know, when it gets difficult, being able to be an example of someone who doubles down and actually does the things that I am preaching. So like right now I'm struggling with toxic mold poisoning, that I have toxic mold in my house and move out of my house. Like I didn't will that on myself. But I do believe that every experience that comes at me is a way for me to experience myself in a new way to become a better version of myself. So I've learned all these ways to heal my physical body, which I don't focus. I work out on that all the time. But fives aren't physical, their mental eights are physical. My husband's and eight. My husband, we had to get rid of everything in our house. We have to start over. It's the great purge of 2022. Oh, well. All all your belongings
are toxic. Everywhere. Yeah, the spores and everything. Right.
Yeah. And mycotoxins. So my husband, he's right. He's at our house right now. Throwing out the last of our stuff, we had to throw out all of our belongings and that crazy. See, that's, that's not it's not that difficult for me. Because I'm a five, he keeps calling me and like, dude, if you call me again, over one painting, I'm gonna lose it. Like, throw it out. We have a Sleep Number bed. It's like a $7,000 bed. I'm like, throw it out and stop. There's no way I'm sleeping on a toxic mattress. Throw it out. Now see you later. But like, you know, in this journey, I am focusing more on my physical healing, which I think a gift in the way I see it is it's probably going to serve me over my when as as I age, caring more about physical healing is a gift that I've been given right now. Like, would I ever choose to have toxic mold poisoning? No. But like, Am I able to squeeze all the lemonade out of the lemons? Definitely. And that's what, that's the example that I want to be for people. Like when you leave porn behind. It's not going to be all roses and sunshine. There's going to be stressors, but you're going to have a plan. And you're going to use all those stressors to keep squeezing the lemonade out. And my my youngest daughter said to me, she calls me Paddy. She's like, Patti, the universe has been trying to kill you for like 15 years. And I'm like, Yes, it has sweetheart. But it's been applying pressure. And I'm like coal, it's been applying all the pressure, and I'm becoming a beautiful diamond rolls her eyes and I'm like, I'm not gonna cave under the pressure. What I'm gonna do is keep using all the opportunities to keep moving forward. And we all can do that every single one and it goes back to what you said. That's the placebo versus no. SIBO. That's right. I'm like, and that's why we my husband and I joke. A friend of ours use the saying, you have the opportunity as a southern accent, you have the opportunity. So now we're always like, I have the opportunity to figure out how to heal from mold poisoning and honestly, I plan on helping people with toxic mold poisoning the third YouTube channel Oh, in the making totally. Um, like I told my team I'm like, it's super weird niches, mold and porn. But. But this mold poisoning thing is exactly like porn addiction and porn addiction recovery. My house has been toxic with mold and growing levels for 10 years, right. And I know that I want the world to know I had my gallbladder out when I was young. And that makes it so that you get impacted by mold poisoning more than other people because the bio like recycles or something. So my family didn't get sick. I've been really sick in growing in sickness for a long time. And now when I look back, in hindsight, I can connect all the dots. That's how it is for so many people with porn, they're like, porn is harmless, then old porn might not be good for me, then they realize it's ramping up. And then you get to a certain point. And I got to the point, my husband did not believe me. He did not think the house had any problems. I go, Dude, this house is killing me. And I slept outside on the back porch for a week. And then I got myself the townhouse. And he's like, he's like, I'm not coming to town. I was like, you don't have to do. I'm not staying in this house for one more second. And I went, I bought all new furniture for the kids. And I'm like, kids are coming with me you can stay in. And two days later, he moved into the townhouse.
There you go, Well done. Well done.
You know, that's, that's the courage and conviction to to, to follow my intuition, and I ignored it for too long. So I'm like, You know what, I ignored it because I didn't want to make waves. I don't want to be the wave maker. But you know, I'm like, I should have followed it earlier, but live and learn and continue to move forward. And next time, it won't take me as long.
Yeah. So okay, I wonder. Maybe as a final point, Trish, if you can just comment on each stage. If somebody let's say somebody is they're like super new to recovery, they haven't even taken that first step. What's something really practical, they could take away. You mentioned like you offer brain hacks at the end of your videos love that concept. Is there like a classic brain hack? For each of these categories? Somebody who has started out the rewiring part, and then someone who's hard wiring or their little practical nuggets that you could offer them?
Yep. So practical nugget for the unwire is come up with a pivot plan. Just know exactly what you're gonna go do in that three seconds, you feel the drip, make sure it's as dopamine producing as possible. In the end, you don't want it to be, but right now you're tricking your brain, your brain starts producing dopamine. And you want to trick your brain into thinking that the dopamine is coming from the idea of going to have a coffee break with your, with your girlfriend, or you know, I always tell people, you have to change your physical and mental space too. So like, just get out of your wherever you are, and go play basketball. Like if you like basketball, leave a basketball right here. I like to play basketball too. So basketball is a thing. Basketball is a thing that I'll do like if I need a break, I just go down I'll shoot a couple hoops with my dog, who I beat because he has no opposable thumbs. Very good defense, though, but like I'll go do that for five minute break and then go back to work. Yeah, changing my physical and mental space really easy. That's the pivot plan that's for the unwire rewire is get yourself a new planner and schedule your life, flexibly schedule it, scheduling the good stuff, scheduling the hobbies, scheduling the meals. This is a huge one for me. I never scheduled mealtime and a long time ago, I made a rule rules are guideposts for you I made a rule I will sit to eat. It's ridiculous. I made their rule 15 years ago, sit to eat.
That that's a big one. That's actually huge.
So like now even if I'm, even if I'm rushing around, I will, you know I will like Rush, rush, rush citta egg rush, rush rush. And so like it's a guiding post for me sit to eat. And you know, schedule those times in because then scheduling your boxing time schedule in your movie times, or in your and you know, do it across your week, come up with what is your ideal week, and day look like and this goes into your goals. This goes into the hardwire. But if you're hardwiring, you've already set yourself up with the life that you love. Now the most important thing for hardwire and this is in the 90 day program I offer I call it a fault line. Know what your behavior is that tells you you're disintegrating out of the real you back into Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. And if you can't see it yourself, have people around you who can call you out on it. And for me, it's always money and time. It's so wild and my son Seamus, I didn't realize it like I'm all sick with mold. I don't even know it. I'm super stressed out because of it because I'm trying to figure out what's going on. I didn't even really feel my stress levels rising Because I still was optimistic, and, and my son shave and but I was really worried about my schedule, and I implemented a spending freeze in our house. And Seamus says to me, if I hear the word spending freeze one more time, I'm gonna lose it. And then I walk away and I go, spending freeze, man, I'm disintegrating. That's when I made the decision that I gotta leave this house because I don't know what's going on. But I know I'm not doing what I need to do to be true to myself. And instead of doing the tough thing I need to do, I'm implementing a spending freeze to make myself feel better.
Right, right. And that's why the self awareness part is so big, right? Because if you learn that later, you don't have the wherewithal to recognize those fault lines.
Yep. So the thing is, you have to know what your fault line is. And then catch yourself the word spending freeze comes out if I start worrying if I start jacking my schedule up, so I'm Tripoli busy. Those are my fault line behaviors if I stopped working out if I stopped sitting to eat, like all those are the fault line behaviors that show me I'm self sabotaging myself. Yeah, yeah, I'm moving backwards. I'm allowing myself to use this brain pattern too much stress too much overwhelm. I'm out of calm focus, which takes me out of the real me the real trician into Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde giving me the things to worry about making it so I have to offset that stress.
Yeah. Okay, that was super insightful. I hope people stick around for this part, because that was gold. We're gonna put links to the 90 Day Program, the YouTube channel, and then we will need to have you back when you launch your book, I would love that you can promote Yeah,
I would love to, I'm trying to find an agent. So if there's any agents out there, my plan, I just finished it. But I've been busy is to find an agent, which I just started the books totally done. I'm gonna find an agent. And if not, I'm going to publish it on Amazon. As soon as I get the last little bits buttoned up. So I'm gonna go do those things simultaneously. So I'd love to come back and talk about it.
That sounds amazing. Thank you so much for your time again, today. Trish really appreciate it.
No problem was my pleasure. really my pleasure to be here?
Well, there you have it. Honestly, guys, probably one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. That was so cool. We like you can obviously see, like we talked about like hard neuroscience, we went on a bunch of different tangents. And then we really got to just learn about Dr. Cherish on a much more personal level for the last 20 minutes there. That was super cool. And I'm really grateful she didn't have to open up like that. But you can just see she's very transparent. Guys, there is so much to learn from her. So please, whatever you do, go and check out her YouTube channel. Because I guarantee you you heard something in this podcast that made you go Oh, I wonder what that means. I wonder what that's about. I wonder how that works. I wonder if that could help me. And all those questions could probably get answered on her YouTube channel, it is absolutely fantastic. I'm gonna put a link in the show notes for that. But really, really highly recommend you go check her out, you're going to learn a ton. Like I said, she's on Tiktok as well. She's working on a book. And we did confirm that when she does publish her book, we will get her back. So if you want some more for Don't worry that's on its way. And, and I'm trying to think if there's anything else I was going to mention, but those are probably the main things where you can just learn a lot about the neuroscience and the rewiring aspects of the brain. So highly recommend you go check her out. And if you are looking for a program, something that's hands on coaching, something that integrates neuroscience concepts with spiritual concepts, and a little bit of emotional focus, kind of clinical psychotherapy concepts, then you might want to consider deep clean the program that we run, this is a comprehensive way for you to resolve the root issues of porn addiction. We do that with coaching, we do that with community. And we also do that with pretty awesome course material. If that's something you're interested in, I'm gonna put my booking link in the show notes. You can book a team's time with somebody on my team, we'll get to know your situation a little bit more and then we can tell you if we can help you. And if we can, then we can talk about what's the next steps might look like on that call. And if not, then no pressure you have people like Dr. Trish Lee and other resources that you can visit and of course you can continue to frequent this podcast, this thing will always be free for you guys. That is my solemn vow to you. So the link is in the show notes. You can book a time with our team. In the meantime, guys, I'm cheering you on. Have an amazing day. We'll talk soon. Bye bye. Hey, everybody, it's the Theo again. Thanks for listening to unleash the man with him. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about a free ebook that I wrote for you called The Ultimate Guide to porn recovery. It provides a basic framework for the recovery process and a few of my top tips completely free of charge. You can get it now at www dot ultimate recovery guide.com. That's www ultimate recovery guide.com. Now if you've been impacted by the podcast, and you want to show some support in less than 60 seconds, there are three ways you can do that. First, you can leave a rating or review on your podcast platform. This lets people like you You know that the content here is valuable. Secondly, you can share this episode with someone in your life that might benefit from the content. If you're passionate about helping other people experience freedom and success in their lives. This is one of the easiest ways to do that. And lastly, you can subscribe. I personally only listen to the podcasts that I subscribe to. If you're seeking daily encouragement, guidance and insight in your recovery journey. I highly recommend subscribing to unleash the man within. Thanks for listening. I look forward to connecting with you very, very soon.
The information opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast by Sathiya Sam and his guests are for general information only and should not be considered medical, clinical or any other form of professional advice. Any reliance on the information provided is done at your own risk.
